Kellie Jay on Talk Radio with James Max

[Mollyollydolly]

Worth a watch. How much do men hate women who say 'no'. When speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1476131289870778374

The pressure to be woke in some circles is massive.

Yes, it is. And I think for a lot of the people in them, it's not like they are critically thinking through every issue and coming down on the side of the progressives. You can see that when people like JM or OJ say that this is the same as gay rights. It's not just that they don't understand this, they also don't really understand the structure of the arguments about gay rights. If they did it would be obvious, even if they were both totally legit, that they were different.

If you scratch the surface they will believe a lot of bs arguments about all kinds of things.

@Datun

SantaClawsServiette

I couldn't care less if AGP is a choice or not. I don't want to see it in public, and I don't want to be an unwitting participant of it.

Neither do I want a man with it to speak on behalf of women who are opposed to it.

You're entitled to feel that way, but that doesn't make it fine to take your personal view that it's directly a fetishistic activity and imply that it's what psychology says is happening with people like DH or anyone else.

As for representing, feel free to tell them not to, I guess. I'm not telling the transwoman who wrote about the only explicit article questioning gender ideology that has been published in the mainstream media in my country to fuck off.

I wonder though what you would feel the same if was people who see themselves as trans saying that women have no place to speak on these issues, because they are trans issues? Or is it just that you only think a trans person should be asked for a view if they toe the TRA line? India W would have been better?

Good lord. I've not told Debbie Hayton to fuck off. Neither is Debbie Hayton the only transwoman to write about trans issues in terms of women's rights. (Miranda Yardley, Rose of Dawn, Blair White, there are loads).

You're entitled to feel that way, but that doesn't make it fine to take your personal view that it's directly a fetishistic activity and imply that it's what psychology says is happening with people like DH or anyone else.

I'm not 'implying' anything. Debbie Hayton is a self-confessed autogynephile and has written extensively about their own personal experience with it. Autogynephilia is a paraphilia, part of the expression of which is dressing as a woman.

I don't want to see it in public. And I don't want to be an unwilling participant of it, nor I want my children to be.

It's entirely reasonable for me to not want a man who gets sexually aroused from presenting as a woman, to discuss what they think my rights as a woman should be, in terms of their own paraphilia!

If you don't like the fact that Debbie Hayton's fetish is a matter of public record, then take it up with Debbie, who is the person who has publicised it, extensively.

At the end of the day, men with AGP aren't women, and men with terrible gender dysphoria caused by a different psychological problem aren't women either.

So, haranguing women over how or why a man has decided they're a woman isn't really women's problem.

So, haranguing women over how or why a man has decided they're a woman isn't really women's problem.
Oh blast it my last sentence got a bit garbled there but you get the idea

@PatsArrow

He just suggested to Helen Joyce that she may not have considered a different side to the debate. Helen Joyce. He said that. To Helen Joyce. 😂

The arrogance of him!

[quote ArabellaScott]Bev of the LGB Alliance! Enjoy!

[/quote] How have I never seen this before!?

I live the gasp it's like dodgy soap opera acting

As for representing, feel free to tell them not to, I guess
Oh believe me we have. Many, many times.

At the end of the day, men with AGP aren't women, and men with terrible gender dysphoria caused by a different psychological problem aren't women either.

This. Why do men think they can just decide some men are women because... reasons...

It was a combination of hilarious and infuriating listening to that.
He could not have made more of a knob of himself than he did.
Posie wiped the floor with him.
I need to catch up on the other videos now!

A mental illness is different to a paraphilia.

I’m sure I read somewhere that the more you indulge a paraphilia the more it takes over and the stronger the urge becomes. So actually maybe for those men transitioning is a really bad idea?

It's complicated, Walk. There's overlap between mental disorder and paraphilias, intersections between criminal law and such, and debate over where the bounds of 'normative' behaviour fall.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/

From a layperson's perspective the commonality seems to me to be that most paraphilias are contingent on the non consent of another party. But the DSM doesn't seem to put it in that light, trying to focus instead on the individual rather than the relationship between a paraphiliac and the object of their desire.

I don't agree with everything KJK says but she was outstanding here.
I admire her grace, charm and cool head.

This guy has no clue and it shows so clearly.

Thanks for that info Arabella.

That's a really good point, WalkonGuildedSplinters.

Watching porn is a cumulative harm. Flashing builds towards rape. Yet this principle is not applied in the case of agp.

One has to ask, why not?

'Does he still find it sexually exciting? “Oh yes,” he shouts excitedly. “Yeah!” But there is a problem, he says, with being a very public tranny. You mean, you couldn’t be seen at the Royal Academy in a nice frock and a stiffy? He nods enthusiastically. “You couldn’t do it. If I could manage it, I’m sure I’d be thinking how to do it. But I can’t.” He pauses. “My days of a spontaneous erection are long gone, anyway,” he adds a little sadly.

As a young man, he dressed as a more conventional woman. Why did Claire change her look? “I had a Damascene moment when I realised that the masquerade of dressing up as a woman and getting away with it, or ‘passing’, as they call it in the tranny world, was a fairly unrewarding experience. I used to come back from shopping in Oxford Street in my Monsoon outfit and think, well, nobody really gave me a second glance and that was boring.” He wanted to be noticed? “I was always slightly envious of those trannies who dressed more flamboyantly and didn’t give a shit.” But why, for instance, the Little Bo Peep look? “It’s a classic look. I used to call it the crack cocaine of femininity. It’s the furthest from the male macho look you could get. It’s vulnerable, it’s young, it’s humiliating. The fantasy of humiliation is a big drug for many men.”

From an interview with Grayson Perry in the Guardian.

@ArabellaScott

'Does he still find it sexually exciting? “Oh yes,” he shouts excitedly. “Yeah!” But there is a problem, he says, with being a very public tranny. You mean, you couldn’t be seen at the Royal Academy in a nice frock and a stiffy? He nods enthusiastically. “You couldn’t do it. If I could manage it, I’m sure I’d be thinking how to do it. But I can’t.” He pauses. “My days of a spontaneous erection are long gone, anyway,” he adds a little sadly.

As a young man, he dressed as a more conventional woman. Why did Claire change her look? “I had a Damascene moment when I realised that the masquerade of dressing up as a woman and getting away with it, or ‘passing’, as they call it in the tranny world, was a fairly unrewarding experience. I used to come back from shopping in Oxford Street in my Monsoon outfit and think, well, nobody really gave me a second glance and that was boring.” He wanted to be noticed? “I was always slightly envious of those trannies who dressed more flamboyantly and didn’t give a shit.” But why, for instance, the Little Bo Peep look? “It’s a classic look. I used to call it the crack cocaine of femininity. It’s the furthest from the male macho look you could get. It’s vulnerable, it’s young, it’s humiliating. The fantasy of humiliation is a big drug for many men.”

From an interview with Grayson Perry in the Guardian.

Yes, Perry is another man who is quite upfront about his fetish. And the need to involve others.

I wish people would actually listen to what they know they're hearing.

I believe it's also true that if you have one paraphilia you're more likely to have more, or a cluster.

And anyone who has read the trans widows threads sees quite plainly, how AGP escalates.

There are, literally, countless men with AGP littered across social media, all wanging on about their proclivities. A fetish which relies on the subjugation of women.

The prospect of them being publicly platformed to talk about my rights in respect of their fetish, isn't something I find particularly acceptable.

I haven't heard Posie Parker specifically talk about Debbie Hayton, i don't catch all her podcasts. But It's zero surprise if she sees Hayton as part of the problem, rather than any kind of solution.

One thing I don’t understand about agp is why it would lead to being trans/transitioning. admittedly I’m not a man and maybe I’m naive but I can’t imagine wanting to live full-time in a sexual fantasy - isn’t that distracting? And Grayson Perry doesn’t - he does do it in public and as a “persona” but he also spends a lot of time getting down to productive work in practical and non-agp clothes.

I think when Debbie told James that what he was saying was nonsense it was very powerful. It just proved that if its not for people like Debbie who is it for?!

Did India Willoughby ever go on? She must have been drunk last night, she tweeted something absolutely awful, did anyone else see it?

I will quote iw's tweet in a separate post hoping it doesn't get deleted, it really should not get deleted, but India Willoughby said on twitter 'the sooner Debbie Hayton pops his clogs, the better'

Wtaf are these guys on? So empowered by the way they have been dawned over until now, they think they can get away with anything

Wow. Stay classy, India

@MrsMadderRose

One thing I don’t understand about agp is why it would lead to being trans/transitioning. admittedly I’m not a man and maybe I’m naive but I can’t imagine wanting to live full-time in a sexual fantasy - isn’t that distracting? And Grayson Perry doesn’t - he does do it in public and as a “persona” but he also spends a lot of time getting down to productive work in practical and non-agp clothes.

There’s a whole chapter on this in Helen Joyce’s book. It’s too much to explain in a post, but she outlines it well.

I think Debbie handled that well.

Oh thanks NotBad - it’s on the pile…