Apparently we are a bunch of "stay at home mothers"

[SerfNTerf]

So says this article anyway

"Acting as an accelerator, the Internet maternity forum Mumsnet has grown over the years to become a hub for British transphobia. Many stay-at-home mothers have become convinced there of the danger that “transgender ideology” poses to their children."

Funny, I could've sworn I went to work yesterday, must have dreamed it

Also, I'm a fucking Stay At Home All The Time General Misanthropist, thank you, never mind Mother.

"mum work is work" has reminded me of this

@FOJN

Never go after Kiwi Farms do they?

That would be signposting people to where the receipts for the things we can't talk about here can be found.

Can I assume that as I'm not a SAHM my T**Ftastic veiws are more credible than those of your average domesticate birthing person?

Yes, you get extra points for working out of the homeplace and super extra points for being bepenised.

God the misogyny is to obvious, isn't it? That derisive, patronising tone - yes how fucking dare women stay at home and be concerned abut their kids!!! Pathetic individuals that they are!

FYI I'm not a mother and I have a job.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

I've asked my husband and he says I'm allowed to have my own political opinions on things despite being a SAHM

(In fact, he agrees with us. Especially about Sport. )

Your husband must be very progressive if he allows you to think your own thoughts

Anyway, as noted, let them dismiss us. They need not concern themselves with who we are, what we do or what we care about, do they?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

If they are/or want to be women so sadly, why are they so full of hatred towards us?

Must be mommy issues, and the fact we want to protect our young and freedom of speech/thought.

Bad bad wimen!

@Ozanj

It’s actually young working class men and women who are least likely to accept trans ideology and they know this. In 10-20 years trans ideology will be as dead as a dodo as the Tik tok generation moves onto better causes & LGBT focusses on the parts of the rainbow that aren’t trying to conform to stereotypes.

Hear hear!

In 10-20 years - I think it'll be a lot quicker than that, tbh.

Women talking together without appropriate male supervision has always been terrifying to a certain demographic. Women who have given birth are frightening and unpredictable, as are, oddly, women who haven’t given birth and so placed themselves outside of the “norm”.

Women banding together and talking always works up a good head of castration anxiety among men who are that way inclined

Therefore Mumsnet, being an unapologetically female centred space where men cannot exercise control must be written off as irrelevant and silly.

Trouble is, when you exert yourself to do that, you’re showing your hand - things that are irrelevant and silly don’t need to be so energetically dismissed, do they? Because, well, they’re irrelevant. You don’t need to enthusiastically try to disempower something that is already powerless.

It really is very helpful when the blatant sexism is exposed like this:

Mummies: stupid, easily led, easily frightened
Stay at home mummies: lots of time on their hands to sponge off their husbands and get worked up about things
Mumsnet: ought to be focused on how to feed babies, choose a pram and nothing else
Moral imperative: re-educate the mummies into better thinking

@sitdownandshuttfup

If they are/or want to be women so sadly, why are they so full of hatred towards us?

Must be mommy issues, and the fact we want to protect our young and freedom of speech/thought.

Bad bad wimen!

It took time to understand this, but from the evidence including civil conversations with several TW here on MN, it becomes apparent. The struggle for many female people to understand what is going on comes from that the words often don't mean what you think they mean, the shared meaning has been lost.

There can seem to be less a desire to be one of the group formerly known as women, than to replace it, bumping that formerly known group out of the space. Only certain aspects of the group is wanted, certainly not the grotty bits which definitely remain the lot of those born female (like being kind, sucking up treatment that others are entitled to be enraged about, sexual violence threats etc), and a pecking order/hierarchy most definitely remains at all times. The utter disrespect and misogyny towards females can be subtle, but in conversation it is there and plain to see.

Again, why mixed spaces for female people will never work. Already in the failing attempts to force this to work, a ridiculous amount of effort, flexibility, tolerance and managing disadvantage is coming from female people, vigorously demanded of them and with constant anger and shaming that they are not doing more and better - while there are no reciprocal requirements of any kind whatsoever. None. This is supposed to be about 'sex isn't binary/not a thing/group by gender is better' - however the sexism is what is breaking it. And a heavy amount of political intolerance and a lack of basic human compassion for female inclusion, diversity and recognition of females as equally human.

There can seem to be less a desire to be one of the group formerly known as women, than to replace it, bumping that formerly known group out of the space. Only certain aspects of the group is wanted, certainly not the grotty bits which definitely remain the lot of those born female (like being kind, sucking up treatment that others are entitled to be enraged about, sexual violence threats etc), and a pecking order/hierarchy most definitely remains at all times. The utter disrespect and misogyny towards females can be subtle, but in conversation it is there and plain to see.

This is so true. Brilliant post.

And yes, it is difficult for most people to get their heads around, especially if you don't spend most of your time online, or even if you do but have a family, productive life, work etc which doesn't revolve around these issues. These issues are these people's whole lives.

A really what’s wrong with a stay at home mum. My mum was one - she also helped dad with his business (she was a pretty shrewd stratigiser) and knew how to woo clients. She also wrangled loads of kids and pets and looked after the aged grandparents too.

She kept us all fed and clothed. Kept the house slick and span. She was always there.

What’s wrong with that?

@KittenKong

A really what’s wrong with a stay at home mum. My mum was one - she also helped dad with his business (she was a pretty shrewd stratigiser) and knew how to woo clients. She also wrangled loads of kids and pets and looked after the aged grandparents too.

She kept us all fed and clothed. Kept the house slick and span. She was always there.

What’s wrong with that?

Quite so.

You could almost say that it’s been used in that article as a sort of dog whistle, couldn’t you, to summon up images of the utter worthlessness of working inside the home, and how women who do it are nappy brained idiots whose opinions aren’t of any note.

Not very progressive, is it? Or socialist (except it is all of a piece with a certain section of the left, which has always been sexist as fuck).

I still find it baffling to meet people who don't apparently see or hear me, or be actually capable of meeting me as another human being. It's really, really weird. Like talking behind glass. When I first heard feminists say this I thought they meant it as a sort of metaphor.

But it happens, in real life, and I see it happen on here. Some people respond to women, feminists, mothers and Mumsnetters in a very particular way. It's quite jarring and confusing at first, and you question what's going on, and eventually what the feminists were saying finally makes sense and everything comes into focus.

It's only when you realise that the women here are just props, just sort of vague smooshy shapes with girlhair and girlfrock and girlboobs. I presume our speech comes out as a sort of half-registered burbling, with the occasional few trigger words picked up on and brought into sharp focus.

The words that are heard are those that are useful to those people who don't see women as human. They'll cherry pick what they please and ignore the rest, ignore the woman behind the words, dismiss us as not actually human.

This has been my biggest shock, I think, among many shocks as I've tramped through the foothills and paths of feminism.

Some people are actually incapable of seeing and hearing and meeting women as equals.

@Sophoclesthefox

Women talking together without appropriate male supervision has always been terrifying to a certain demographic. Women who have given birth are frightening and unpredictable, as are, oddly, women who haven’t given birth and so placed themselves outside of the “norm”.

Women banding together and talking always works up a good head of castration anxiety among men who are that way inclined

Therefore Mumsnet, being an unapologetically female centred space where men cannot exercise control must be written off as irrelevant and silly.

Trouble is, when you exert yourself to do that, you’re showing your hand - things that are irrelevant and silly don’t need to be so energetically dismissed, do they? Because, well, they’re irrelevant. You don’t need to enthusiastically try to disempower something that is already powerless.

It really is very helpful when the blatant sexism is exposed like this:

Mummies: stupid, easily led, easily frightened
Stay at home mummies: lots of time on their hands to sponge off their husbands and get worked up about things
Mumsnet: ought to be focused on how to feed babies, choose a pram and nothing else
Moral imperative: re-educate the mummies into better thinking

The moral imperative to re-educate the mummies into better thinking is being enacted. We can see it in the how indoctrination is targeted through maternity services, childbirth and breastfeeding charities. No joke this appears to be where maximum efforts are made outside of education and the secret machinations in law and policy.

Education and maternity, women and children are being targeted, preparing both women and children to lower their boundaries and submit to their subjugation, we must understand that we exist for others and not for ourselves, we must have nothing for ourselves, nowhere to escape, nowhere to relax, nowhere to let down our guards and feel safe. We must know our place, lower our eyes and keep quiet and submit. That appears to be the goal.

Interesting, isn't it? For two thousand years we've had 'God made man in his own image'.

And here we are, in modern times, being told that patriarchy is a thing of the past, and now it's 'man made woman in his own image'.

No thank you. I'm still a voter. Although frankly, give that a year or two, as women having a vote is going to become a very inconvenient thing, and we have seen how women's rights are disposable at the drop of a hat. I wonder how long before it will become literal violence and microaggression/dogwhistle/white privilege right wing yada yada for female people to talk about wanting to keep their right to vote?

Just the fact that they describe puberty blockers as safe says it all.

But so many of this lot seem to assume that all MNers must identify as ‘cis women’ and thus be nice cosy support humans, fitting all the feminine gender stereotypes & chatting about nappies, pushchairs & lipsticks - I think that’s what one well-known trans person narrowed it down to. And when they find that most of us think gender is sexist bollocks they can’t cope.

Education and maternity, women and children are being targeted, preparing both women and children to lower their boundaries and submit to their subjugation, we must understand that we exist for others and not for ourselves, we must have nothing for ourselves, nowhere to escape, nowhere to relax, nowhere to let down our guards and feel safe. We must know our place, lower our eyes and keep quiet and submit. That appears to be the goal.

It's still the case that not just the default person but the default space is assumed to be a male space. Women's spaces are the exception, carved out for us and easily targeted. Because I think many people still see the public sphere as male.

We certainly see the belief very frequently enacted that all space is male owned, but they may choose to gift some bits of it temporarily to females unless/until male people want it. The anger when female people do not understand and enable this is interesting to witness.

The sexism in all this is quite mindboggling.

Oh oh - have they been watching ‘The Real Housewives of XX’ and think it’s a documentary? I’ve only seen wee snips and it looks pretty hideous.

I assume the male numpties can't even see the many MN women who either never have been, or are well past being, mummies.

Huge mistake. Massive.

I was rather tangentially reminded of this thread by Sarah Ditum's column in the Times today. (If anyone wants to discuss it do feel free to copy the link and make another thread, I don't want to derail this one)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-does-tv-still-hate-middle-aged-women-sgt5m9bs9?shareToken=464adc2a2a58fad4f07a147fec22f64b

@Franca123

It's like it's written by an alien. The Times is a tabloid? 'Internet maternity Forum mumsnet'?! Who talks like that. Plus I thought it was exclusionary to talk about mothers. Is mother now a slur? There is nothing wrong inherently with being a stay at home mother. Having said that, I've never got the impression that the people here were disproportionately stay at home mums? I'm certainly not...... All very odd. It is always interesting to see the opposing views arguments or lack thereof. They certainly haven't managed to describe my terf radicalisation in any accurate way at all.

It’s like it’s their first time using a thesaurus