And just like that - females squeamish at male public masturbation

[MuchasSmoochas]

Has anyone watched the new Sex and the City show yet? I got really annoyed and switched off. Carrie is on a podcast, lots of chat about cis het. Whatevs.

But what really made me furious was when the male podcast guest said he couldn’t think of anywhere where he hadn’t masturbated in public. And Carrie said she hadn’t and they laughed at her like she was such a prude. I suppose it was trying to show how behind the times she is. I suppose she didn’t want to “kink shame” .

When did it become ok for men to masturbate in public?

Yes I know it’s a shit show BTW.

I a way a surprised by that too. Rather than play it as if she was out of step I’d rather she’d called the person out on it. I speak as someone who had about ten men masturbate in public at me from the age of 10-16 including one who ended up in the papers as I hit him so hard

Its really missing Samantha☹️

@SpeedReader

I thought the first two episodes were mostly terrible, including because of the handling of gender identity and diversity. Leaving aside my political objections to the gender stuff, there is also an aesthetic problem. To me, the 55 year old versions of Carrie and Miranda, in particular, are not in keeping with their younger selves. Both were smart and confident women. So why are they now so bumbling, uncritical and apologetic? I'm perplexed that not one of them has become one of those strong middle aged women who doesn't give a f* what anyone else thinks, and who would have told the podcast hosts that she's not interested in public masturbation "jokes". It's actually quite ageist and misogynistic. I thought SATC2 was bad - AJLT has shows its possible to plumb even lower depths.

There is a youtube video by a reviewer called The Critical Drinker who talks about this phenomena in a lot of modern sequels - I think he mentions Star Wars, Rocky, Terminator - where they basically completely change everything that was admirable about the old character into almost the opposite. So Rocky whose main virtue was perseverence seems completely passive and beaten down, or Like Skywalker who tried to redeem his father after everyone else had given up hope tries to kill his nephew because of a vision.

He suggests it's so that they can introduce these new, "perfect" characters, but to me that seems unlikely in SITC. I wonder if it doesn't all reflect some change in how people think of human nature, or at least people who see themselves as progressives?

@Holeandthentwo

Having just read a few articles with the writers and actors speaking about how vital the inclusion of trans and non-binary characters, and how cis people need to learn tolerance, with a bit of JK Rowling bashing for good measure, I’m going to say my hopes are in vain and it’s sadly not ironic and it’s just going to make us see how these 50 odd year old women are out of touch but will be re-educated.

A sad way to end what was, I still believe, a groundbreaking series for the representation of women.

Oh really? How depressing

Oh FFS. I may watch but not sure want to. I watched at the time. It's of it's day though and should leave it at that.

I'm not at all surprised what done with Miranda.

I thought she was a really good character and it really annoyed me in original series the way she was presented.
She was really clever, sensible, ambition, hardworking, successful. Determined. Etc. Great qualities and plenty mention of sexism etc she experienced.

But mainly the message seemed to be. Work got in the way of life, fun. Often others were openly baffled about why would do late nights, keep at it, want to progress.

Difficulty of career plus baby important but rather than conveying a sense of, she refuses to compromise, determined not to fold. It felt... More it's awful, she's a knackered mess, can't manage, failing at both. To me that how came across at time.

So NOW she's an alcoholic middle aged woman. Rude, possibly bigoted, I'm guessing unhappy and a general mess?

Not surprised. At all. Of the 3 left, Miranda was the one from the start who needed to teach viewers a lesson. Women who try to have it all come to no good. (Still!).

Lobster- yes! It's shit I had have a slightly different take though.

And would add Dr who to the list!

What I have seen is-

Simplification of characters and stories. Very little establishment of even main characters.
Any establishment is through scenes to spell out one or two points. And they are standard.
Eg

Person in clothes old/ battered etc. running from, fighting people in uniforms.
Determined, goodie, wanted by baddies, brave, hero.

People (often with non USA accents) in uniforms, marching in groups. Generally doing something BAD. Are baddies.

No nuance, no complex individual stuff, no doubts, dilemmas. No personality essentially. Nothing. No insight into internal life, complexity. Nope.

I mean sure this isn't highbrow stuff but still!

It's all spoon fed, background and characters established though linking to standard film stereotypes. Not script, not acting (they aren't given the opportunity to do so). All about visuals and action not the actual character, iyswim.

Constant heavy handed messaging. Done well you shouldn't notice it. Done well it should be subtle, nuanced, you only see it if you look for it.

now?
BAM! environment! Stop animal cruelty! Rainforests! Gay person! Etc.

This is NOT the best approach in any way shape or form.

And when not delivering MESSAGES everyone is killing everyone casually and constantly.

Yay!

Fucking appalling.

But then I am the right age to moan things were better in my day!

I just caught this in a Sky channel so thought I'd give it a go because I used to watch SATC.

I tuned in just around the time of "ooh, quick with the pronouns" and barely stopped rolling my eyes. The qpublic masturbation discussion was awful. And the shaming of someone who doesn't wish toengage in the discussion? Horrendous. Seems "prude shaming' is fine, but don't you dare kink shame.

What really pissed me off was when Carrie and Miranda used the men's toilets like it was absolutely fine. Yes, the queues for women's toilets are irritating but it just felt like they were trying to push the gender neutral toilet agenda somehow.

Oh is that what the men's toilet thing was! I was just super confused by that!

In the trailer for the series there is a shot of Charlotte looking on with loving acceptance as a short haired Rose, wearing a checked shirt puts a skateboarding poster over the flowers on her bedroom wall. I have a very, very strong suspicion that this will not be a case of Charlotte accepting (in the fucking 2020s) that one of her daughters is a bit retro and enjoys 90s grunge fashion and sports. But that it will be Charlotte accepting that Rose is in fact a transboy or NB because girls can't possibly enjoy looking like many girls, including me, looked when I was a teenager or enjoy a little extreme sports as I, a very contented woman, did then and still do now.

Perhaps I'm wrong but honestly. Charlotte's parenting is actually deeply concerning. She wants her two daughters to be two perfect mini-me princesses, with no regard for their individual personalities. Forcing a very, very subscribed and stifling version of what being a girl means is the number one way to ensure a child that doesn't fit in that tight mold questions if they really are girl. Added to that, if I had two children, one adopted and a surprise biological child that came along a few years after. And if my adopted child was growing into my ideal, perfect vision of a child, while my biological child rebels, I'd be very, very concerned.

First off I'd worry if my adopted child was truly happy being this vision of a person I was choosing for them. I'd be deeply concerned that they were afraid of not pleasing me and worried that they fear my love is conditional and as a result unable to allow themselves to be who they really are. And I'd worry that my biological child was feeling such a need to test my love, maybe because she feels that she came along and ruined the 'perfection' I had going on with my first child. (Not that I'd ever make any child feel so constricted as to what my idea of them is.) Lily could be absolutely perfectly happy as Charlotte 2.0 but the fact that Charlotte isn't a little concerned about the very sharp contrast between both her daughters is very naive of her. She just emotionally rewards Lily for being 'perfect' while being unable to hide her exasperation at Rose for not being so good. It's a shit message for both her kids.

And I really do think that we're not going to be shown that Charlotte is being naive about both her daughters and that they both need to feel secure in her love and free to express themselves. But that Charlotte is stifling her young son by thinking he is a girl because of his pesky vagina. And that when it's pointed out to her, she will learn to love her perfect sporty, check-shirted son as much as she loves her exactly what a girl truly is, daughter.

@Holeandthentwo

Having just read a few articles with the writers and actors speaking about how vital the inclusion of trans and non-binary characters, and how cis people need to learn tolerance, with a bit of JK Rowling bashing for good measure, I’m going to say my hopes are in vain and it’s sadly not ironic and it’s just going to make us see how these 50 odd year old women are out of touch but will be re-educated.

A sad way to end what was, I still believe, a groundbreaking series for the representation of women.

Ah OK. In that case I withdraw my 'reserving judgement' comments. Parker, Nixon and Davis are not naive young women fearful for their careers. They have made their money and they are executive producers. I can make allowances for storylines taking time to play out, but if they're having a pop at JKR then no excuses.

@Wanderingowl

In the trailer for the series there is a shot of Charlotte looking on with loving acceptance as a short haired Rose, wearing a checked shirt puts a skateboarding poster over the flowers on her bedroom wall. I have a very, very strong suspicion that this will not be a case of Charlotte accepting (in the fucking 2020s) that one of her daughters is a bit retro and enjoys 90s grunge fashion and sports. But that it will be Charlotte accepting that Rose is in fact a transboy or NB because girls can't possibly enjoy looking like many girls, including me, looked when I was a teenager or enjoy a little extreme sports as I, a very contented woman, did then and still do now.

Perhaps I'm wrong but honestly. Charlotte's parenting is actually deeply concerning. She wants her two daughters to be two perfect mini-me princesses, with no regard for their individual personalities. Forcing a very, very subscribed and stifling version of what being a girl means is the number one way to ensure a child that doesn't fit in that tight mold questions if they really are girl. Added to that, if I had two children, one adopted and a surprise biological child that came along a few years after. And if my adopted child was growing into my ideal, perfect vision of a child, while my biological child rebels, I'd be very, very concerned.

First off I'd worry if my adopted child was truly happy being this vision of a person I was choosing for them. I'd be deeply concerned that they were afraid of not pleasing me and worried that they fear my love is conditional and as a result unable to allow themselves to be who they really are. And I'd worry that my biological child was feeling such a need to test my love, maybe because she feels that she came along and ruined the 'perfection' I had going on with my first child. (Not that I'd ever make any child feel so constricted as to what my idea of them is.) Lily could be absolutely perfectly happy as Charlotte 2.0 but the fact that Charlotte isn't a little concerned about the very sharp contrast between both her daughters is very naive of her. She just emotionally rewards Lily for being 'perfect' while being unable to hide her exasperation at Rose for not being so good. It's a shit message for both her kids.

And I really do think that we're not going to be shown that Charlotte is being naive about both her daughters and that they both need to feel secure in her love and free to express themselves. But that Charlotte is stifling her young son by thinking he is a girl because of his pesky vagina. And that when it's pointed out to her, she will learn to love her perfect sporty, check-shirted son as much as she loves her exactly what a girl truly is, daughter.

Yeah. Also worth noting that Cynthia Nixons own daughter is trans and identifies as a man so I am sure she would jump at the chance of introducing a similar storyline to show how ‘beautiful’ it all is and Charlotte is the only character who has a daughter. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

Oh Cynthia will love it I’m sure

Just more footage to juxtapose alongside men featuring in women's sports and detransioner testimony when we look back at this generation and wonder why mass sterilisation and suicide ideation was pushed on young people.

Just hope that the rowing back starts in my lifetime.
And jkr's. I think she's earned an 'I told you so'.In the meantime, would be deliciously ironically if the series got cancelled because they alienated all the viewers.

@GCAndProud Also worth noting that Cynthia Nixons own daughter is trans and identifies as a man so I am sure she would jump at the chance of introducing a similar storyline to show how ‘beautiful’ it all is and Charlotte is the only character who has a daughter. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

I didn't know that about Nixon. Just that she was married to a woman after previously been married to a man and that she'd tried running for New York governor.

How come so many celebrities have trans children? I know of Charlize Theron, Cher, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kary Payton, etc. Now I know of Nixon. Possibly Naomi Watts and Liev Schrieber's son, though they haven't 'announced' anything so they may be more like the Jolie/Pitts and giving their child time to experiment with his dress sense. It just seems like a lot.

Because those children are all privileged. It would be very interesting to see the number of trans children in schools in deprived areas with large percentages of PP children compared to the more affluent, middle class schools.

I propose a game of bingo:
My prediction is (Miranda) asking Charlotte (with tears in her eyes) Would you rather have a dead daughter or a living son! (Bonus points of Charlotte is wearing a teadress or forcing her child to try something frilly on in a boutique).

Ohh and I predict Carries infamous tutu will play some role in the gender identity plot.

Whether she concludes she's cos on finding it, or whether said gender non conforming child takes the piss, I'm not sure on.

Other items of clothing that could feature are Charlotte's veil(probably will be cut up in a fit of rage) and Miranda sadly mourning that she can't get into her skinny jeans now that bootcut is back in.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

I propose a game of bingo: My prediction is (Miranda) asking Charlotte (with tears in her eyes) Would you rather have a dead daughter or a living son! (Bonus points of Charlotte is wearing a teadress or forcing her child to try something frilly on in a boutique).

I definitely foresee that line being used. I've read a couple of articles about Nixon and her kid. Apparently she had decided years and years before she knew one of her children was trans, exactly how she would react if one of her children was trans. And it was with total acceptance because she read an article where a dad said just that live son/dead daughter line and it hit home to her.

[quote Yeswhatno]@NandorTheRelentless
I watched the original series, and it was witty and funny, and intelligent, and talked about important issues

genuine question:
What were the important issues?

I was pretty young when I watched and haven’t seen that many episode and all I can remember is fashion, shoes, hair and sex.
So very shallow show what I remember.[/quote]
There were many serious issues..breast cancer, testicular cancer, infidelity, relationships to name a few

Fuck, I just saw this on Twitter:
twitter.com/anonacademic_uk/status/1471497994335768578?s=21

Seems all predictions were correct re the trans kid.

As predicted, Charlotte's daughter does not identify as a female. (The show underlines and signposts its plot points so much you don't need to be a psychic to figure out what happens next.)

So.. do we see Charlotte take Rose to the doc for puberty blockers or T? Will Rose be called Kai, or perhaps Ash, or Kayden?

My prediction is Charlotte is worried about puberty blockers and is told they are just a little pause (Harry possibly supplies a new name for Rose, perhaps the boy's name they had picked out already, and tells Charlotte it's fate/no big deal)

I’m fucking out in that case

How FUCKING annoying!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-does-tv-still-hate-middle-aged-women-sgt5m9bs9?shareToken=464adc2a2a58fad4f07a147fec22f64b