Schoolgirls rejecting mixed toilets over boys’ bad behaviour - Times Scotland

[Igneococcus]

In the "no shit Sherlock" section:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7f12e196-4e3c-11ec-9bc6-5abf98655bc4?shareToken=8750246678967bdd6accb8b86d6f553f

The of mixed toilets is appalling.

At my son’s all-boys school, the toilets had to be redesigned, because the boys quickly realised it’s the one place in school without CCTV so would get up to all sorts of nonsense in there - blocking toilets, damaging sinks and doors, pissing on the floor, leaving it in a disgusting mess. It was costing the school a fortune in repairs and the cleaners were so fed up. So they took the door off and the walls down, and instead had individual cubicles directly onto the corridor with CCTV on the corridor and staff outside at breaktime.

In my daughter’s all-girls school this does not happen (although they do get up to other stuff in there, usually involving mobile phones).

If you were a girl having to share with boys it would be awful.

Also as others have pointed out, the age and size difference between a Y7 girl and a Y11 boy - it’s just not appropriate - and the girl would be really uncomfortable.
In fact my son’s school now has designated year group toilets for this reason.

They also have a gender-neutral toilet for any pupil who would prefer it.

But trans activists do seem to be misogynistic?
In fact I would go further and say trans ideology and belief is fundamentally misogynistic

I mean how is it not misogynistic to want to replace sex based rights with gender based rights?

How s it not misogynistic to claim that being a women isn't fundamentally tied to reproductive biology ?

It's not that they are more conservative in the country
It's just they have a better grasp on reality, nature and biology
More in tune if you like

The reality is that people in the country and rural areas are by and large are more conservative on issues like this than metro areas. I have no idea why you would try to deny it.

I did grow up in the country, and I, like you know many people who also grew up in the country. Some are conservative, some are not. That is my point.

My point is you are making generalisations about groups of people that you are often presenting as negative whether you realise it or not.

And I think you also label people as ‘anti-trans’ without any reference to just what that means. I know many women who have feminist ideals from the country, they don’t necessarily apply the label ‘feminist’ but that doesn’t mean they don’t hold feminist values.

I also know plenty of country people who support trans people. Supporting trans people doesn’t mean allowing single sex spaces to be converted to mixed sex. This is not ‘anti-trans’, by the way. Which seems to be how you are framing it.

As I said, you are making generalisations that I don’t agree with. And if you read the posting guidelines, MNHQ take a pretty dim view of generalisations like that.

The expense of providing suitably designed individual mixed sex single entry toilets ( similar design to disabled provision) in a school would be astronomical . Therefore, given the small size of the transgender community, a few additional mixed sex single entry toilets could be provided , if funds are available. However, this should not be done at the expense of existing single sex provision.

Therefore, given the small size of the transgender community, a few additional mixed sex single entry toilets could be provided , if funds are available. However, this should not be done at the expense of existing single sex provision

But again this raises the question that is never answered , given the safety issues that single entry enclosed cubicles present and its only thr accessible toilet that has the alarm pull, why are trans children not entitled to the same level of safeguarding as other children.

It is not OK to place trans children who still have a sex regardless of how they feel about that in dangerous situations to avoid being a adult and saying NO.

@bordermidgebite

Actually I think she may have a sort of point

People who have more contact with natural world especially farming community are I suspect less likely to buy into the idea that animals of any kind can change sex

Children who have been protected from an understanding of "birds and bees" and taught "you can be what you want to be "will fall for it more easily

People in the countryside certainly have no misconceptions about biology, however I disagree with her latter point, that country people are "less feminist". I suspect that you will find less misogyny on a farm than in an office block.

I have observed no correlation between town :country and feminist principles

The whole point of this thread has been lost to pointless bickering.

@Helleofabore

Really? Threatening me with reporting for generalisations for saying country people skewed more conservative on the whole? They do, you can easily look this up. Obviously there are people with different views everywhere but country people do tend to hold more conservative views and identify as such on average.

But given the threat to try to get me banned I’ll just stop since it’s clear that you’ll try to censor anything which doesn’t conform to your chosen narrative. Ironic.

@DdraigGoch

Country and rural people are less likely to be feminists than say metro dwellers. I don’t know why that would be surprising to anyone.

Well it's surprising to me since it doesn't fit with my observation

But advocates argue that they eliminate confusion from members of the LGBTI (lesbian, bisexual, trans and or intersex communities) over going to the ‘wrong toilet’."

Let me see if I understood this properly. Lesbians, gay boys / men and bisexual men and women would not know which lavatory to use because of their sexual orientation? Does that mean that they wouldn't know which sex they were?

Intersex people - well, they are either male or female and chances are, if they are in the UK, their sex will have been determined by the time they are in school. There might be a tiny tiny percentage whose sex is uncertain but that possibility is vanishingly small.

So, we are left with people (largely male) who want everyone to bend to their way of seeing the world, no matter what it costs to girls and women?

TarasCrazyTiara

All I can say here is ‘what the actual fuck’ ?

@BlameItOnTheBlackStar

The whole point of this thread has been lost to pointless bickering.

I agree. It always makes me cross when posters allow the thread to become derailed. Just ignore the derailer, for heaven's sake. This is not about metro versus country - it's about mixed sex toilets in schools.

@Helleofabore

TarasCrazyTiara

All I can say here is ‘what the actual fuck’ ?

I have other words to use but, yes, one of them include in the word "fuck". The other one would be "off".

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

You know I believe I will. I didn’t realise this was a commiseration thread for only like mixed folks. We’ll know I know.
Say la vie.

*like minded folks

The comments under that article are reassuring. And the variety of commentators suggests that those in schools throwing away girls rights will be getting an increasingly uncomfortable time as parents are growing in confidence as the real harms are being exposed. They are starting to challenge these toxic decisions in increasing numbers.

They are starting to challenge these toxic decisions in increasing numbers

We really need one of these cases to make it to court. For all the defences local authorities put in , somehow the decision still gets reversed etc as soon as the threat of legal proceedings loom.

Would be so good to get this settled once and for all. I mean let's face it if parebts had the time, money akd skills to do it , then chances are they'd be homeschooling to avoid it all in the first place.

@TarasCrazyTiara

*like minded folks

Like minded folks who disagree with a random, unsubstantiated and highly odd assertion that no one outside of cities is feminist?

It's not a 'commiseration thread'. It is probably fair to say it's a 'not accepting unsubstantiated random statements' thread.

@Whatwouldscullydo

They are starting to challenge these toxic decisions in increasing numbers

We really need one of these cases to make it to court. For all the defences local authorities put in , somehow the decision still gets reversed etc as soon as the threat of legal proceedings loom.

Would be so good to get this settled once and for all. I mean let's face it if parebts had the time, money akd skills to do it , then chances are they'd be homeschooling to avoid it all in the first place.

Agreed - we need the insistence on mixed sex toilets, showers and changing rooms for schools to be challenged. We also need one of the captured schools transitioning children in secret to be dragged through the courts as well (much as I hate suggesting this). Schools breaching the fundamental safeguarding principle - working in partnership with parents who have the legal responsibility to safeguard their own children - must be challenged urgently.

Given the get out clauses written into the paperwork ny the lobby groups pushing for this which absolve them of all responsibilities and place it onto the school, I think it would just take one case to cost a school thousands if pounds of funding they don't have befire the rest quietly put things back hoping they aren't next

@Artichokeleaves

I didn’t say that no one outside of cities were feminists as you know, I said that more feminists were likely to be in better off metro areas than in country and rural areas. Not that it was all one way or another. And it’s true.

[quote TarasCrazyTiara]@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

You know I believe I will. I didn’t realise this was a commiseration thread for only like mixed folks. We’ll know I know.
Say la vie.[/quote]
This thread is about mixed sex toilets in schools, not about feminism in the country versus city.