Schoolgirls rejecting mixed toilets over boys’ bad behaviour - Times Scotland

[Igneococcus]

In the "no shit Sherlock" section:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7f12e196-4e3c-11ec-9bc6-5abf98655bc4?shareToken=8750246678967bdd6accb8b86d6f553f

This article is useful to cite on school toilets

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4987780/amp/Headmaster-apologises-gender-neutral-toilets.html

LadyDansburysHat - I am in a similar situation to you with two children who will be moving up to the new Peebles building. I attended an initial consultation about the new campus particularly because of the issue of single / mixed sex toilets after learning a lot on here! I was relieved when another parent asked about this. We were told then that while nothing was decided yet, the designers were well aware of the contentious nature of this issue and that it would not be just all gender neutral blocks (mixed sex) and nothing else. They were clear that there should be single sex toilets for those who would prefer this and that choice for pupils was a key priority.

While I am quite pleased with this, I will be watching very closely for more info on this as planning develops and will be ready to make my voice heard if necessary.

@dropthevipers

From what I’ve seen the gaurdian is practically mumsnet a feminism section in a newspaper.

@RedCarpetRebellion, unfortunately, the way our borough works I won't know which school she got into until March!

[quote TarasCrazyTiara]@dropthevipers

From what I’ve seen the gaurdian is practically mumsnet a feminism section in a newspaper.[/quote]
Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. Not for nothing that a load of GC stories simply dont get covered there-i.e. if you were relying on the Guardian you would never have heard at all about the Girl Guides stuff.f you try to comment on an opinion piece with anything remotely GC it gets binned. Oh, and they fucking love Judith Butler.

@dropthevipers

They have (or had I don’t really look at it much because it’s always been kind of crap) loads of female writers who were the exact same opinion with the exact same interest in anti-trans stuff writing there once to the point every other article was about that or at least some kind of feminist thing. It was hard to tell if it was a serious news site or just meant to give that perspective really.

Which is why I said they seemed exactly like those on Mumsnet feminism space, British, usually 30’s or older, very feministy echo chamber opinions (not just on trans stuff but everything) with the specific language which reflects that (and confuses everyone else). Basically carbon copy’s of one another.

And I say that as someone who doesn’t much care about the trans/British feminist ideological battle. Most people don’t care about having an endless slant of that stuffed whether pro or anti shoved in their faces on a news outlet supposedly covering all news.

@dropthevipers

The delete all comments against whatever the article is pro pretty much - not just those ones, believe me I know. It’s pointless trying to comment honestly there on anything.

Oh bingos on tonight?!

I've got agist and sexist already

And I say that as someone who doesn’t much care about the trans/British feminist ideological battle. Most people don’t care about having an endless slant of that stuffed whether pro or anti shoved in their faces on a news outlet supposedly covering all news.

Yes but what is your opinion about girls being forced to share toilets with people of the opposite sex?

I realise that this is NOT the main concern for any of us really, but what strikes me is that this is unfair to all of our children, although of girls are (as always) disproportionately at risk.

Last year at school my son was accused of something very serious, but which he did not do (school staff witnessed what actually did happen so were able to handle it very coolly) but the girl's parents backed her so fully that they reported my son to any person in authority they could possibly think of, including the police and social services.

Now - they were 7 at the time. And there were two adult witnesses who saw that this girl told a silly 7 year old fib which then got blown up out of all proportion by her parents (who believed their daughter as we all instinctively would but then refused to hear the reality).

But it chills me utterly to think what if he'd been 15/16/17/18, and in a bathroom with girls as young as 11. What if one of them made a similar claim, where there are not going to be adult witnesses around? Who is protecting any of the children in that scenario?

Girls and boys/women and men have single sex spaces for REASONS. Those reasons do not cease to exist because TRANS. I have a son and a daughter and I'm always walking the line between the two. This is a terrible terrible step backwards for girls, but also for boys, who also have a right to dignity and privacy.

@334bu

I already said I thought it was wrong which is why I clicked this post in the first place. Not just because of trans - even if there were none it would still be a terrible idea in schools.

But seriously I read some real rabbit hole stuff on here that the general public would find just as wacky as they do this trans bathroom stuff.

But seriously I read some real rabbit hole stuff on here that the general public would find just as wacky as they do this trans bathroom stuff.

What rabbit hole stuff? Please elaborate?

2319inprogress, the comments on the Southern's FB page are quite heartening too, plenty of 'wtf' - also people saying girls are waiting until lunchtime and going to the loo in local supermarkets rather than use the school facilities.

@Changecountetextraordinaire

2319inprogress, the comments on the Southern's FB page are quite heartening too, plenty of 'wtf' - also people saying girls are waiting until lunchtime and going to the loo in local supermarkets rather than use the school facilities.

And why?

Because of a political agenda, forced on these children by adults, who are determined to remove privacy and female only provisions from females to benefit males.

The moderate position is fine, make some mixed sex spaces while leaving single sex provisions alone, and this equally respects and meets all needs.

This causes howls of rage from the political lobbies forcing this on kids and women. Nothing will do except total capitulation, and it is better that females be excluded or harmed than that any compromise or mutual respect is considered. That's the point that a lobby requires strong legal boundaries because they will not respect the needs and differences of others voluntarily, if those needs conflict with their personal wishes.

My one experience in the boys toilets at school told me that mixed sex toilets was always going to be a terrible idea. The smell still haunts me

Anyone remember being 12 and scared to unwrap your pad? Now imagine there's a load of sixth form boys there. Or worse actually 14 year old silly boys. I remember when a girls pad dropped out of her bag and the absolute hysterics from some stupid young teen boys that followed.

And its not the LGBTQ community who are confused. How ridiculous (and offensive) to suggest that a lesbian is confused about what bathroom they need to use. Just because a lesbian fancies women it does not mean they are not a woman and should not use the women's toilets, they are not confused about their sex because they fancy women.

Neither the L, the G or the B are confused about which bathroom to use. This is not a gay rights issue and it angers me that we constantly lump trans issues as LGB issues. Fancying the same sex is entirely different to wanting to be the opposite sex, and the lumping of LBG and T is designed to make you look homophobic when you disagree. I actually think this is a big reason why so many people struggle to support women's rights, because the T is so often conflated with the LGB.

@BlameItOnTheBlackStar this is actually another point that is often not brought up

Male teachers would be taught to not be alone in a room with a female pupil and the door shut. This is safe, sensible practice to protect all parties. We can recognise the risk in this scenario, to both the teacher and the child. But we can't recognise the risk of an 18 year old boy being shut in a room with 12 year old girl. Its bizarre. There's no other scenario where you'd think it was a good idea for an adult male to be alone with a young girl. Yes there maybe a flimsy partition between them whilst their trousers are off but there's still the sinks and toilets are pretty easy to kick in/climb over/under or see under

Which is why I said they seemed exactly like those on Mumsnet feminism space, British, usually 30’s or older, very feministy echo chamber opinions (not just on trans stuff but everything) with the specific language which reflects that (and confuses everyone else). Basically carbon copy’s of one another.

And I say that as someone who doesn’t much care about the trans/British feminist ideological battle. Most people don’t care about having an endless slant of that stuffed whether pro or anti shoved in their faces on a news outlet supposedly covering all news.

And you seem to have some pretty established prejudices that you are bringing out here, supposedly on your first visit to the board. So.... you haven't really read anything on this board but have assumed that certain demographics mean an echo chamber.

You know the average age of first time mothers in Britain is 30 years old, don't you? And this IS a British site.

The reality is that there is a wide range of voices on this particular board. I am not actually 'British' and many others are also not.

And there are many different opinions on this board too. Which there wouldn't be if it was actually an 'echo chamber'. If you actually took the time to read, often there is robust discussion.

But you are right in one respect. Most of the time, what is usually demanded on here, from all sides of the discussion is evidence of claims. If you are here to simply have a go at people and to use emotional manipulation such as the attempt to shame people for being 'British, usually 30’s or older, very feministy' then your posts will be met with matching derision.

RedCarpetRebellion
Your post was perfectly clear me!

*to me!!

@Changecountetextraordinaire

2319inprogress, the comments on the Southern's FB page are quite heartening too, plenty of 'wtf' - also people saying girls are waiting until lunchtime and going to the loo in local supermarkets rather than use the school facilities.

That's good to hear! Truancy officers in Glasgow were told girls were skipping school during their periods due to the mixed sex toilets

So very progressive

DS3s school has open plan toilets with a girls side and boys side, they are considering making them all gender neutral. DS3 already avoids using them as they are off a corridor, he has IBS and sometimes has to deal with wind and loud gurgling, smells etc. at school. He finds this v embarrassing but would find it excruciating to have to use a cubicle next to a girl.
I will be reminding the school of the requirement to provide separate toilets under the equality act.

@Wbeezer

DS3s school has open plan toilets with a girls side and boys side, they are considering making them all gender neutral. DS3 already avoids using them as they are off a corridor, he has IBS and sometimes has to deal with wind and loud gurgling, smells etc. at school. He finds this v embarrassing but would find it excruciating to have to use a cubicle next to a girl. I will be reminding the school of the requirement to provide separate toilets under the equality act.

Very good point! I think it is important to remember that a lot of boys are also uncomfortable about sharing the space with girls. I talked with my boyfriend about it and he mentioned he would be really embarrassed about sharing the space, even though he is an adult.

When you start secondary the older students are so grown up. Big. It's not unusual to be a bit intimidated by them. Including the older girls.

For a first year or even second year you feel sort of vulnerable, physically small. Just with 'big girls'.

The idea of an 11yo girl with 18yo boy in that situation is obviously just totally wrong.

And also an 11yo boy with 18yo girl he won't like that will he.

And that's before you even get into all the potential issues.

My DS school has gender neutral toilets and he dehydrates himself too. This policy serves no-one well, no-one at all.

And an obvious issue I'd have thought the school would immediately identify.

Is the opportunity that a gf and bf would have for a bit or a lot of a canoodle at lunch break in a cubicle. This is teens we're talking about fgs. Very often extremely limited privacy in the warm available. Homes usually out of question. That's why the cinema is well known for teens dating!

I mean it's just bizarre that things everyone knows are somehow forgotten when it comes to this.