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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nobody knows why there are women and there are men?

231 replies

andyoldlabour · 18/11/2021 16:23

According to Ellie Mae O'Hagan of the CLASS think tank:

"I don't know why some people are women and some people are men, nobody on this panel does"

Crikey, I know things are bad, but I didn't know we had reached Defcon 1 already.

twitter.com/notthatbeard/status/1461038528624791560?s=20

OP posts:
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ruthieness · 19/11/2021 07:35

The idea that we are not “evolving” if the population is shrinking assumes that the population will shrink to zero. Sometimes a shrinking population is temporarily needed for survival of the group.

Randomly I was remembering a theory about Lemmings - the theory goes that when it becomes clear that there is not enough resources to maintain the current Lemming population they all jump off a cliff and swim until the weakest ones drown and then, when enough weak ones have been “selected” for extinction to ensure enough food to go round for the rest - then the stronger ones swim back and carry on.

AsTreesWalking · 19/11/2021 07:42

I don't know anything about men and women, but I do love little kittens...

TeamRex · 19/11/2021 07:54

The recent discovery of elephants without tusks or small tusks is an example of selective evolution in a shrinking population. Ones with large tusks die through poaching so the elephants that are "fittest" to survive and reproduce in that environment have small or no tusks.

Not sure where this idea that populations need to be getting bigger for evolution to occur.

It requires 3 things,

a variation in characteristics within the population

that this characteristics are passed on through reproduction, I.e they can be inherited

a living environment that gives some characteristics an advantage or disadvantage in terms of survival through to reproducing

IncompleteSenten · 19/11/2021 08:03

Maybe we'll evolve into a species that doesn't think men have to like beer, football and wearing trousers and women have to like make up, pink and dresses. Maybe we'll evolve into a species that understands that gender stereotypes are absolute bollocks and that rejects them completely. That would be great.

SCR0071 · 19/11/2021 08:09

What am I on about ?? Simply one observation about natural selection. Your out of context deconstruction highlights that the process is widely misunderstood. Being a central mechanism of evolutionary change defined as a change in gene frequencies over time, it isn't gene mixing and variations that are responsible- it is the fact that some people pass on more genes that others which influences the change in the human gene pool over time.
But honestly I am insoucuant to the way others see the world...

NotBadConsidering · 19/11/2021 08:10

Ellie Mae O’Hagan is fascinating. Either she is so utterly stupid she doesn’t know what a woman is really, but has somehow managed to wangle her way to a position of influence, or she knows what she’s saying is complete and utter bullshit, but is prepared to stand by it to elevate her own standing among those she values and shit on women in the process, which is kind of evil. It reminds me of that segment on The Daily Show 10 years or so ago.

Whatwouldscullydo · 19/11/2021 08:14

Either she is so utterly stupid she doesn’t know what a woman is really, but has somehow managed to wangle her way to a position of influence, or sheknowswhat she’s saying is complete and utter bullshit, but is prepared to stand by it to elevate her own standing among those she values and shit on women in the process, which is kind of evil

We know the answer to that.

The second privileged male couples want a baby suddenly a woman is less of a mystery. They know exactly what 50 percent have a uterus to rent for 9 months

RepentMotherfucker · 19/11/2021 08:15

I am insoucuant to the way others see the world

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means Grin

IncompleteSenten · 19/11/2021 08:19

You mean insouciant? You are nonchalant about how others view the world? Lightheartedly unconcerned? Cool.

loislovesstewie · 19/11/2021 08:25

I'm going to have a lie down in a darkened room with a cold compress on my head! I'm going to get the one with XY chromosomes to bring me a large brandy. I just can't take any more of this stuff!

merrymouse · 19/11/2021 08:32

@NotBadConsidering

Ellie Mae O’Hagan is fascinating. Either she is so utterly stupid she doesn’t know what a woman is really, but has somehow managed to wangle her way to a position of influence, or she knows what she’s saying is complete and utter bullshit, but is prepared to stand by it to elevate her own standing among those she values and shit on women in the process, which is kind of evil. It reminds me of that segment on The Daily Show 10 years or so ago.
I suspect that like OJ it’s because her allegiance to left wing politics is tribal rather than values based.

She can therefore adopt a fundamentally right wing opinion that wouldn’t look odd coming from Iain Duncan Smith - “I don’t need rights and services, so those women must be lying when they say they need them” - and believe that it is left wing because she has expressed it.

Fariha31 · 19/11/2021 08:38

@allmywhat

Did we really just get treated to a photo of an electron microscope fuse box?

Did that truly just happen?

I thought this thread couldn’t get any more surreal after the OP!

Hey ladies, check out my electron microscope! It’s super complicated technology the like of which you could never hope to understand.

Grin now my colleagues are looking at me funny.
Fariha31 · 19/11/2021 08:43

@CheeseMmmm

Right here goes!

'A scanning tunneling microscope (STM) is a type of microscope used for imaging surfaces at the atomic level. Its development in 1981 earned its inventors, Gerd Binnig and Heinrich Rohrer, then at IBM Zürich, the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1986.[1][2][3] STM senses the surface by using an extremely sharp conducting tip that can distinguish features smaller than 0.1 nm with a 0.01 nm (10 pm) depth resolution.[4] This means that individual atoms can routinely be imaged and manipulated. Most microscopes are built for use in ultra-high vacuum at temperatures approaching zero kelvin, but variants exist for studies in air, water and other environments'.

Therefore if a male says they're a woman then they are. Results from the microscope clearly show that a stick person on one door and a stick person WITH A SKIRT on another door signal internal gender ID and always have.

Further it shows that any male who states a female gender ID have grown up a girl and are a woman then that's that. Zooming in closer revealed that transmen naturally are and always have been men/ boys and so women should be wary of them, they should be in male prisons, and they enjoy higher wages pensions and are usually right, their views being based on logic rather than irrational emotionalism.

A close analysis of the data revealed that anyone who thinks sex is important. Anyone meaning anyone female obviously. Has a genetic makeup clearly identified as a mix of ghengis Kahn, Pol pot, mau, Hitler and the pharoah who ordered all the baby boys to be killed in the Bible. Also present but not to such a large an extent, Satan, medusa, the 3 witches in Greek mythology, Darth Vader before he went good, and warthogs.

The conclusion then is scientifically proven to be-

Men are what men say they are
Women are what men say they are
Women who don't agree with what men say are literally the biggest threat to the planet, milky way, galaxy and universe than anything else.

OMFG its all so clear now.

Brilliant post, I will be giggling all morning about this.

andyoldlabour · 19/11/2021 08:52

NotBadConsidering

"Either she is so utterly stupid she doesn’t know what a woman is really, but has somehow managed to wangle her way to a position of influence, or she knows what she’s saying is complete and utter bullshit, but is prepared to stand by it to elevate her own standing among those she values and shit on women in the process, which is kind of evil."

Unfortunately I think your last point is correct. I would like to know, why nobody on that TV show actually challenged her, or even ridiculed her.
I would also like to know how this thread became so entertainingly derailed by one poster.
As the husband of a biologist, I would just like to leave this here.

"Testis-determining factor, also known as sex-determining region Y protein, is a DNA-binding protein encoded by the SRY gene that is responsible for the initiation of male sex determination in therian mammals."

OP posts:
Grumpyosaurus · 19/11/2021 08:53

'Insoucuant' is my word of the day.

Also, gene mixing is a pretty key part of evolution. Organisms survive because they are fitted to their environment. Part of this fit is due to their genes (that is, the variation in genes between different organisms of the same species means some are more likely to be e.g. drought resistant than others). They have the combinations of genes that they have because of gene mixing via sexual reproduction.

If it want for gene mixing, evolution could only happen via mutation, which takes a lot longer and is random, rather than driven by environmental factors.

Now to go and contemplate my fuse box...

Grumpyosaurus · 19/11/2021 08:54

Not want. *wasn't

andyoldlabour · 19/11/2021 08:55

Oh yes, just wanted to say, the fuse box image was fascinating. Maybe if I flick the upsatirs light switch, a "Y" chromosome will appear?

OP posts:
Doomscrolling · 19/11/2021 09:09

I love you lot. I’ve been laughing loudly enough to alarm the cat.

BraveBananaBadge · 19/11/2021 09:12

Does anyone remember Insane Clown Posse?

amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/miracles-fucking-magnets-how-do-they-work

SCR0071 · 19/11/2021 09:15

I was about to reply to repentmotherfucker but hebetude prevailed.

Helleofabore · 19/11/2021 09:25

hebetude prevailed.

I know a Hebe and she does have a lot of ‘tude!

foxgoosefinch · 19/11/2021 09:26

@andyoldlabour

Oh yes, just wanted to say, the fuse box image was fascinating. Maybe if I flick the upsatirs light switch, a "Y" chromosome will appear?
It’s Science, innnit!

Or insouciance. Insciencience. Or something.

Awiltu · 19/11/2021 09:28

@SCR0071

It isn't the male that solely determines the sex of a child- XX is a girl and XY for a boy - the chromosomes need to combine and that assignment is one last to be made.
Yes, rare DSDs aside, the male parent does determine the sex of the child.

Normally, each cell in the body apart from reproductive cells (gametes - sperm and eggs) has 23 pairs of chromosomes (46 chromosomes in total). 22 pairs are autosomes (ordinary chromosomes) and 1 pair is sex chromosomes (either XX or XY).

"Ordinary" cell division by non-reproductive cells by a process called mitosis produces new cells which are identical genetic copies of the "parent" cell, containing the same 46 chromosomes (23 pairs).

Gametes are produced by a different type of cell division called meiosis. As part of this process, the 23 chromosome pairs split up so that one chromosome from each pair moves to opposite ends of the cell (think of two lines of dancers facing each other in pairs, then the lines separating and backing away to opposite ends of the room). The cell then splits in half down the middle to make 2 new cells, with each new cell containing one chromosome from each of the original 23 pairs - so 23 chromosomes in total (half a genome) in each gamete.
At fertilisation, the sperm enters the egg and "half-genome" from the sperm combines with the "half-genome" from the egg to create a full set of 23 pairs of chromosomes in the fertilised cell.

In female gametes (eggs), the single sex chromosome in each gamete is always X, because the sex chromosome pair in a fertile female is XX, so X is the only option available. During male gamete formation, the XY chromosome pair will split so that half the gametes produced contain an X chromosome and half contain a Y chromosome. When the genetic material from sperm and egg combine at fertilisation, what determines whether the resulting embryo is male or female is which of the 2 sex chromosomes the fertilising sperm contains. An X-containing sperm will combine with an X-containing egg to produce an XX sex chromosome pair and the embryo will be female. A Y-containing sperm will combine with an X-containing egg to produce an XY chromosome pair and the embryo will be male. (Inevitable caveat: sometimes defects in individual genes necessary for reproductive development result in DSDs, so that reproductive system phenotype isn't typical of the sex chromosome pair present.)

Sometimes the process of chromosome pair separation during meiosis goes wrong, and instead of separating and moving to opposite ends of the cell, a chromosome pair will stick together and move to one end of the cell without separating. This means that when the cell divides in two, one of the new cells will have an extra chromosome (i.e. both chromosomes in a pair rather than just one of them) and the other new cell will be lacking a chromosome from that pair. When this happens to sex chromosomes, it results in specific DSDs such as Turner's syndrome (XO - one chromosome missing from the sex chromosome pair) and Kinefelter syndrome (XXY - an extra X chromosome).

Cailleach1 · 19/11/2021 09:35

@AsTreesWalking

I don't know anything about men and women, but I do love little kittens...
I was going to ask why are there kittens. However, I do think I have the answer to that. To put a picture on chocolate boxes and cards, and to post pictures on the internet.
Igneococcus · 19/11/2021 09:41

Species that reproduce asexually tend to be very specialist. Limited ability to adapt to new or changing environments.

Some can switch between both forms, yeasts for example.
Yes, I'm still flying the flag for those single cell organisms, although yeasts are of course Eukaryotes.