Therapist asking if I'm a man, woman or gender neutral.

[aweegc]

I got a feedback form from my therapist (clinical psychologist) yesterday. It's about how I feel things are going and how I feel I've had things explained to me or been treated. All fine. I've had it before but this time the last question (it's not obligatory to complete the form but if you do then you can't skip question) the last one was "Are you a man / woman /gender neutral? The very last page had a text box for extra comments. I used it and went to town. My therapist doesn't write these forms, but I was really pissed off.

The thing is, I'm having long term trauma therapy and the majority of those traumas are due specifically to me being - not identifying as - female. Of course, I know all the politics around all this, I've seen this question on forms (or similar) a hundred times, I've had rape threats because of my biological understandings etc, but to have this question in a therapeutic setting has completely thrown me. Especially when male violence is about to become a big part of our work.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this post. I am trying to get out of a relationship that was 13 years of gaslighting. That feeling when you're being gaslighted and you're not sure what's going on, you're sure you're right but you no longer know where up is, who you trust etc is back.

If she believes that a man who identifies as a woman because he at least in part finds it sexually thrilling to be victimised by men IS a woman, then where do my experiences of being sexually victimised because I am a woman fit in? I feel that that man and I are definitely not the same, but I've just been categorised as the same in her eyes.

I actually ticked gender neutral and wrote - amongst other things - that I'm not that either but as I was forced to give an inaccurate answer, that was the one I chose.

If anybody can untangle my thoughts here I'd be most grateful. I'll be talking to her about the form next session anyway but I feel so "gaslighting confused" that I am not even sure I can explain why I feel gaslighted/gaslit. And it's extremely strange because I'm normally very, very clear about all aspects of this.

I'm also really fucking pissed off that because of a tiny minority of people - amongst whom the adult majority are men - my sex-based experiences and existence is undermined by no longer being sex-based.

Maybe I should have identified as "anything but biologically female" earlier in life, because then I'd not have been raped or sexually assaulted so much?

OP, I am sorry that you are having to deal with this nonsense at all, let alone in the context of therapy for sex based violence.
I think you should tell the therapist exactly how this form makes you feel.
Tell her that sex is binary and physical, that "gender" does not exist outside of made up stereotypes, that you were unable to identify out of being a rape victim, and the whole gender ideology is gaslighting on a massive scale. That you feel let down and angry that the very person who should be helping you seems to have passively signed up with your oppressors.
Any decent therapist will welcome the chance to discuss your feelings about it.
May I say that I think it's a good sign that you are angry - you are recognising abuse and asserting your boundaries, which is very healthy. My best wishes for your continuing therapy and recovery.

This is a standard form and a standard question. Seriously some people look for offence in everything. Just fill out the question as it states from the 3 answers. I don't know anyone who would be unable to answer.

@Mouseonmychair

This is a standard form and a standard question. Seriously some people look for offence in everything. Just fill out the question as it states from the 3 answers. I don't know anyone who would be unable to answer.

Did you actually read what the OP wrote?

OP I hear you.

Oh op

Its just so wrong isn't it that the people meant to help or protect you are complicit in furthering the abuse you suffered in the lead up to you even being there. Gaslighting is abusive.

@Mouseonmychair

This is a standard form and a standard question. Seriously some people look for offence in everything. Just fill out the question as it states from the 3 answers. I don't know anyone who would be unable to answer.

I would be unable to answer as I have no idea what they mean by "gender neutral".

This is a standard form and a standard question. Seriously some people look for offence in everything. Just fill out the question as it states from the 3 answers. I don't know anyone who would be unable to answer.

Well according to a speaker on Politics Live anyone who says 'they know what a man or a woman is", is s liar. So how can you be sure everybody does know how to answer this question?

OP

So sorry you're having to deal with this, OP. I've had a similar form following on from my recent cancer treatment.
This form asks about which "best describes you?" Male/female/non-binary/self describe..., and "is your gender identity the same as the sex you were registered at birth?" Yes/No/Prefer not to say.
At least it says "registered" and not "assigned", but I don't have a "gender identify" so can't answer that. At least I have a paper form, so I can leave that and fill in the "Any other comments" section.

All the many forms I filled in during treatment only ever had Male/Female options.

Thank you (almost) everybody. I didn't think anybody would answer. I can't even talk about this this morning without crying. It's helpful to be understood. And ideas of how to tackle this with the therapist (on top of what I wrote on the form) are welcome.

It has to be tackled because it is deeply undermining the whole relationship.

As PP said, it is a standard form. Just skip the question if it bothers you that much.

Standard form who cares? No use being triggered by the politics of it. Some forms have a “rather not say” option as well. Again, who cares it does not matter.

If it doesn't matter why lobby organisations etc to do it?

It cant simultaneously be no big deal so important they pay thousands if pounds pounds the lobby group who tell them to do it.

@SaltyPepper

Standard form who cares? No use being triggered by the politics of it. Some forms have a “rather not say” option as well. Again, who cares it does not matter.

The OP cares and it matters to her.

Seriously there is a time that you don't have to be right on.

@Whatwouldscullydo

It’s a big deal to someone - but that is true of so many lobby groups of all kinds who push things through which the majority would either be ambivalent about or reject. Including things feminists have lobbied for.
However as that kind of thing goes - this has zero effect on OP’s or anyone else’s life, a tiny tiny minority will tick gender neutral. Actually by OP ticking that she’s basically added to the stats that support it being there lol.

Anybody who is not in the peculiarly British bubble phenomenon of middle aged feminist vs trans, would have just put down their gender and not given a crap

Any form that gives even hint that there's a belief that being a woman is just thoughts inside someone's head and not an inescapable biological reality, starts off a relationship with anyone with the knowledge that it's OK to be less than truthful.

If someone is prepared to lie to me whilst simultaneously expecting me to tell them everything about myself then that relationship isn't going to go anywhere.

Someone in therapy is extremely vulnerable and further theor abuse and vulnerability is unacceptable

You said your therapist didn't write the form. Can you approach it from that angle? She didn't decide to ask that particular question, maybe she should be more aware of questions that could cause problems?

The issue isn't with the question, it's with the stereotypes and sexism you're expecting to come from it. That question might be helping more people than it's hindering, but it shouldn't be necessary to care for you.

@aweegc

You are right to be angry, this matters very much - to you personally and to many of us effected in many ways.

Even though it's "just a standard form", your therapist should understand that in the context of your therapy, it is not acceptable. Because gender ideology is fundamentally misogynistic, it's rubbing salt into a wound in the worst way.

[quote SaltyPepper]@Whatwouldscullydo

It’s a big deal to someone - but that is true of so many lobby groups of all kinds who push things through which the majority would either be ambivalent about or reject. Including things feminists have lobbied for.
However as that kind of thing goes - this has zero effect on OP’s or anyone else’s life, a tiny tiny minority will tick gender neutral. Actually by OP ticking that she’s basically added to the stats that support it being there lol.

Anybody who is not in the peculiarly British bubble phenomenon of middle aged feminist vs trans, would have just put down their gender and not given a crap[/quote]
I'm working class and so are many of the GC feminists I know. The argument we're all wealthy needs to die already - if anything, I've found more MC people on the trans side of the issue.

I would have gone off them (and have) if given this question.

I can't answer the question because these days, woman apparently no longer means what it used to mean and I can't answer with woman because I refuse to be complicit in gender stereotyping people.

Never mind, just saw you wrote middle aged.

Also not true - I'm 29. And know of others who aren't middle aged - as if that bears any relevance or takes away from our arguments at all.

I also don't have a ''gender'' - unless you really mean sex?

Go with some notes to help you explain how you feel. When emotions get high, remembering everything is difficult and I think it’s important for you to be able to explain how you feel, and not leave thinking - I forgot to say x and y.

Fwiw - I work in NHS and also have to give out a million forms, none of which I have had any input into. And there are many things I don’t agree with. So if it were me, I’d be very supportive of your view and happy to hear it.
Often its patients complaining that get traction more than staff pointing out issues. In my experience anyhow.

@SpudleyLass

One and the same and always will be. The separation of them in your theory is pointless.

[quote SaltyPepper]@SpudleyLass

One and the same and always will be. The separation of them in your theory is pointless.[/quote]
Sex and gender are the same? You sure about that?

That certainly isn't the view of the people who advocate for these questions in these forms.

OP I would feel just the same as you. Shit like this can be re traumatising - genuinely, not in the hyperbolic way that term is often used.

Why? Because many women experience nearly as much trauma from the lack of response to their abuse /assault as they do from the actual event itself. Horrible events on their own don't always cause long lasting trauma if the victim is able to fight back (physically and or legally) or get away. Unfortunately for women, our physical size and our lesser status in society means we are often unable to fight or get away and are dismissed, disbelieved, shamed or persecuted if we attempt to prosecute.

The form was gaslighting the OP that gender ID is more important than sex to record. To suggest that "woman" is an identity choice and not an inescapable reality is victim blaming. It implies OP could have opted out of the abuse by choosing to be male.

The question produces useless data in this instance. It doesn't give information about the trans population. It merely blurs statistics so some males are included with females and vice versa. This should not be happening. How can we build proper services and initiatives if the truth is obscured?