DIANE ABBOTT AND SEX WORK ARTICLE IN THE TIMES

[Mollyollydolly]

Diane tweeted about sex work
'Horrific that Durham University is offering training to students who want to be sex workers part-time. Sex work is degrading, dangerous and exploitative. Uni should have nothing to do with it'.
If you really want to depress yourself look at the responses to her tweet. I really don't understand what went wrong on the left, how is prostitution progressive? I just don't get it, some of the replies from the likes of Femi and blue tick Independent journalists make me feel sick. They sound like pimps.

Saddest of all are the young women who have been gaslight into thinking this is a good career choice. So depressing.

ahhhh! On par for the course.... Margarita seeks to discredit feminists because a person used the term 'whore' when referring to prostitutes.

So... another ad hominem attempt rather than providing a well thought out and critically analysed argument.

Please do keep on going. Because your arguments are usually a live demonstration on the complete lack of robust foundation that most activist arguments are based on.

At least you have not tried the 'when I read MN threads I cry' tactic. Mind you, that was a prescient argument that was then used by a BBC group in a zoom meeting with executives.

Pro-criminalisation Melissa Farley

I'd not heard of her. According to wiki:

She advocates the Swedish model, in which paying for sex, pimping and human trafficking are illegal and the sale of sex is decriminalized; social services should be funded to aid prostitutes in leaving their way of life.

So, in favour of decriminalisation for the exploited and abused people in this 'trade'.

Nice piece of misrepresentation there. I certainly don't condone her use of the term 'whore', but extending culpability for that to the feminists on this board makes about as much sense as castigating Paul Simon fans.

Swedish model comes under criminalisation, yes.

"pimping and human trafficking are illegal and the sale of sex is decriminalized; social services should be funded to aid prostitutes in leaving their way of life"

It's still illegal in Sweden for sex workers to work together, and they also can't rent property.

www.hivlawandpolicy.org/sites/default/files/FinalReport-Risks%2CRights%26Health-EN.pdf p38

Turns out policing the Swedish Model is so expensive it leaves less resources for Social Work.

Would you honestly want your daughter to be a'sex worker'/prostitute @ MargaritaPie ?
If not why not?
If yes, why?

It's still illegal in Sweden for sex workers to work together, and they also can't rent property

Oh, the old canard of 2 "sex workers" happily sharing a flat under the twinkling eye of their receptionist , a retired ",sex worker" and their honest and upright bodyguard.

Really eye-popping to want nice sanitised terns for prostitution yet complain about a woman having a “potty mouth”.

Women, do not swear or use Bad Words! It’s unladylike and distasteful. Make yourself available to men for paid sex - it’s what women are for after all - but god forbid you don’t coyly euphemise what’s going on, as it’s disgusting for a woman to have a “potty mouth”. (Presumably if she puts her mouth to paid use instead, that’s all hunky dory, as long as she doesn’t refer to it by any Bad Names, as that might sully her mouth far more than being a receptacle for strange men’s semen).

Margarita, we see you and your weird misogyny about women’s place and what women are and what they should do. Namely being subservient vessels for men’s use, but quietly, and enjoying it. It’s a twisted and nasty view of women, and nobody is convinced by the specious pseudo-arguments.)

@loislovesstewie

Would you honestly want your daughter to be a'sex worker'/prostitute @ MargaritaPie ? If not why not? If yes, why?

But it's so much better than "flipping burgers" or "cleaning toilets" so why not?

@MargaritaPie

Swedish model comes under criminalisation, yes.

Says who? I'd say it's decriminalisation from a feminist perspective.

@loislovesstewie

Would you honestly want your daughter to be a'sex worker'/prostitute @ MargaritaPie ? If not why not? If yes, why?

I await Margarita’s reply.

@foxgoosefinch

Really eye-popping to want nice sanitised terns for prostitution yet complain about a woman having a “potty mouth”.

Women, do not swear or use Bad Words! It’s unladylike and distasteful. Make yourself available to men for paid sex - it’s what women are for after all - but god forbid you don’t coyly euphemise what’s going on, as it’s disgusting for a woman to have a “potty mouth”. (Presumably if she puts her mouth to paid use instead, that’s all hunky dory, as long as she doesn’t refer to it by any Bad Names, as that might sully her mouth far more than being a receptacle for strange men’s semen).

Margarita, we see you and your weird misogyny about women’s place and what women are and what they should do. Namely being subservient vessels for men’s use, but quietly, and enjoying it. It’s a twisted and nasty view of women, and nobody is convinced by the specious pseudo-arguments.)

Reminds me. I was going to join a lesbian group on Facebook, then noticed the rule about no swearing as it 'wasen't ladylike'.

I decided they weren't the kind of lesbians I was looking for.

Re: ‘potty mouth’
This was posted on this board yesterday (Rufus the hound?) about ‘services’ offered in a German brothel.
twitter.com/telibarb/status/1459604363681353737?s=21

Women aren’t supposed to swear, but men are supposed to be able to shit and piss into their mouths.

That baby-talk American phrase ‘potty mouth’ is so enraging anyway.

@MargaritaPie

I suppose you call sex workers wh*res too?

The only person who used that word on this thread was catherina, upthread, who linked to an account with the utterly vile username of “jeremywhorebyn”

Catherina was arguing for your position, eg is supportive of students being prostituted.

Keep digging, do.

BTW I clarify that I am asking about daughters as it seems that it is mostly women who are prostitutes, I wouldn't want my son to be involved either, and of course most of the customers (if I can loosely call them that) will be men.

Turns out policing the Swedish Model is so expensive it leaves less resources for Social Work.

It cut the number of murders of prostituted women to zero though, so I'd say it was worth it.

"I'd say it's [Swedish model] decriminalisation from a feminist perspective"

It's not, and to use the word decriminalisation to refer to the Swedish model is really inaccurate. Decriminalisation is what New Zealand and parts of Australia have.

"It cut the number of murders of prostituted women to zero though"

In Sweden? The country in the middle of nowhere with a very low sparse population where murders are uncommon anyway? Even if murders are rare, the link I posted above does say the sex trade in Sweden is now thought to be more violent.

Wait, IIRC there was a murdered sex worker in Sweden can't recall her name. She tried to warn the police about her abusive boyfriend but the police weren't interested and more interested about what she did for money?

And why not look at a country other than Sweden that has lots of bit crowded cities. France- 10 sex workers murdered in 6 months under the Swedish model which they implemented.

www.pion-norge.no/aktuelt/more-than-10-sex-workers-have-been-killed-in-6-months/

nordicmodelnow.org/2017/11/14/how-a-nordic-model-approach-to-tackling-prostitution-was-implemented-in-ipswich/

MargaritaPie why do you believe that criminalising punters leads to more murders?

When stats show that reducing demand and helping women and girls to exit prostitution is the most effective way to reduce murders of those same prostituted women and girls?

The link you shared contains no factual data whatsoever.

Germany: 55 sex workers murdered by johns in 13 years. The Netherlands: 28 sex workers murdered by johns in 15 years. Sweden: Zero sex workers murdered by johns in 16 years.

From 2015:
www.feministcurrent.com/2015/11/03/remembering-the-murdered-women-erased-by-the-pro-sex-work-agenda/

MargaritaPie, any chance you could answer my questions?

The reaction to mainly female students doing 'sex work' (which is an umbrella term for a lot of different things) surely should be-

Finding out data on whether particular groups are going into it more than others. Finding out why that is.

Universities student unions etc agitating for more funds/ grants/ etc for all or for the groups that need more money to stay in education or individual help, that sort of thing.

Taking a view that this is not a neutral or harmless thing. That students who are often away from home for first time and are really so very young, to be earning money in sex work esp prostitution which can be v dangerous, psychologically damaging etc.

The focus should be on prevention. Not on treating this as normal and providing help after the event.

Looking into whether there is recruitment going on. If so then who how when. Putting a stop to it.

There have been some threads this year about Only Fans. One of the worrying aspects is that it can look so harmless. A girl might think she could just put up some photos of herself looking glamorous. But from there, there is pressure from the people who subscribe to them for more and more. It had been described as a porn funnel. I think there is also some element of pressure to get others to do it.
This was one thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4242427-society-feels-so-porn-obsessed-these-days

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4229653-Are-things-worse-now-than-they-were-5-years-ago

@loislovesstewie

MargaritaPie, any chance you could answer my questions?

Margarita will just ignore them, as she does any difficult question. Same nonsense will be spouted on another thread though without any acknowledgement that what she is saying is dubious at best. It's tiresomely predictable.

It's tiresomely predictable.

It really is. But then some posters believes a fresh audience will appreciate the recycled trope.

@CheeseMmmm

The reaction to mainly female students doing 'sex work' (which is an umbrella term for a lot of different things) surely should be-

Finding out data on whether particular groups are going into it more than others. Finding out why that is.

Universities student unions etc agitating for more funds/ grants/ etc for all or for the groups that need more money to stay in education or individual help, that sort of thing.

Taking a view that this is not a neutral or harmless thing. That students who are often away from home for first time and are really so very young, to be earning money in sex work esp prostitution which can be v dangerous, psychologically damaging etc.

The focus should be on prevention. Not on treating this as normal and providing help after the event.

Looking into whether there is recruitment going on. If so then who how when. Putting a stop to it.

Absolutely- but that isn't what's happening.