Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DIANE ABBOTT AND SEX WORK ARTICLE IN THE TIMES

348 replies

Mollyollydolly · 12/11/2021 18:22

Diane tweeted about sex work
'Horrific that Durham University is offering training to students who want to be sex workers part-time. Sex work is degrading, dangerous and exploitative. Uni should have nothing to do with it'.
If you really want to depress yourself look at the responses to her tweet. I really don't understand what went wrong on the left, how is prostitution progressive? I just don't get it, some of the replies from the likes of Femi and blue tick Independent journalists make me feel sick. They sound like pimps.

Saddest of all are the young women who have been gaslight into thinking this is a good career choice. So depressing.

DIANE ABBOTT AND SEX WORK ARTICLE IN THE TIMES
OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 14/11/2021 21:06

There was a thread early last March about Only Fans infiltrating Hugher education.

Ohio University hosted the creators of Only Fans as part of a special week.
www.sexweekatosu.org/2021-sex-week-events/2021/2/20/onlyfans-behind-the-scenes

wgss.osu.edu/events/sex-week-2021-osu

There had also been something similar at Brighton
www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/sex-work-students-brighton-university-sussex-freshers-fair-swop-a8563186.html?amp

MargaritaPie · 14/11/2021 23:30

So you don't want Uni's to talk about sex?

KimikosNightmare · 14/11/2021 23:45

@MargaritaPie

So you don't want Uni's to talk about sex?
Why is the role of universities to talk about sex?
ScrollingLeaves · 14/11/2021 23:46

@MargaritaPie
Do you want universities to be used as bases for exploitative companies to groom their students?

And for their students to take up selling their bodies, having been assured this is a viable course to take?

OnlyFans: Behind the Scenes

Saturday, February 20, 2021
4:00 PM 5:00 PM
“Google Calendar ICS
REGISTRATION LINK: us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_C0pKQnNtR1KlImL8hatDtQ

Starting an OnlyFans? Join us for a panel with OnlyFans content creators to discuss their experiences and destigmatizing digital sex work. “On that Demon Time, she might start an OnlyFans (OnlyFans) Big B and that B stands for bands”... cue Megan Thee Stallion & Beyoncé. “

foxgoosefinch · 14/11/2021 23:46

@MargaritaPie

So you don't want Uni's to talk about sex?
Well that’s disingenuous and frankly makes you look an idiot. A normal and healthy sex life is nothing like prostitution. I was at university in the 90s and the student union managed to have perfectly comprehensive sex information and support without normalising “sex work”.
FlyingOink · 15/11/2021 00:11

@MargaritaPie

So you don't want Uni's to talk about sex?
Is it sex or is it the "right" of men to pay women who don't want to have sex with them, to put out and shut up about it? And to have things done to them that they don't want, by men they don't fancy?

It gets boring to keep being called a prude when actually what we would like is for men to stop coercing women with money. They can have all the sex in the world if they want. Funnily enough prostituted women don't fuck their punters for free. If they wanted to, nobody here is stopping them.

MargaritaPie · 15/11/2021 00:23

"prostituted women"

Do you really think the student sex workers want to be referred to as "prostituted women"?

FlyingOink · 15/11/2021 00:25

@MargaritaPie

"prostituted women"

Do you really think the student sex workers want to be referred to as "prostituted women"?

Ask them when they exit the sex trade. It's the term women who have escaped the industry prefer to use.
FlyingOink · 15/11/2021 00:39

children on Onlyfans

reality of being on Onlyfans

And this argument, from Reddit, that suggests OF is a multi-level-marketing scam:
Recruitment

OnlyFans ultimately runs on a recruitment system; currently, the referrer gets 5% of the recruitee’s first year earnings, but before this year, it was 10% of their lifetime earnings.

Pressure to provide novelty

Like with all sex work, OnlyFans targets women as service-providers and men are the customer base. These men desensitised by porn demand novelty and greater taboos to be able to get excited. In porn, this creates a short lifetime cycle where an actress starts by marketing herself as fresh meat, then by each more subsequently degrading act, until they are considered used up and out of the market. Due to the pace and scope of online porn, this now happens in months to a year. The actress then has two choices: try and get out of the industry while facing huge, lifetime consequences, or continue to try and provide novelty through recruitment of others. Even historically, this is why there was a prostitute-to-pimp pathway.

Female Empowerment

Like with MLMs, the OnlyFans users who are turning to recruitment will turn to their social networks. OnlyFans doesn’t provide an actual contacts or clout with the sex work industry, so they have no other options. However, with trying to manipulate women you already know into sex work - it means you know their vulnerabilities, and many women approached about joining OnlyFans have talked about being bombarded (love-bombing) with flattery and stories of how it improved the users’ self-worth, esteem and circumstances, and will do the same for them. Many also talk about being made to feel they were ‘denying’ people something (their bodies) that deserved to be shared because they were ‘too hot’ to keep it to themselves.

Rag-to-riches advertising

Similar to being a ‘sugar-baby’ participants in OnlyFans often talk about their earnings as if they were purely able to spend it on luxuries - designer handbags, make-up, waxing - without mentioning that sex work is culturally stigmatised and makes it harder for you to work outside the porn industry; and that these things are often necessary to perform the standards required of you by your customer base, up to and including plastic surgery. Often they will talk about this as ‘business expenses’ flippantly, as if that doesn’t contradict their talking points about sex work being an easy way to get money to do whatever you want with.

More conventional MLMs usually target women such as military wives and mothers, who have households to look after but are unable to develop careers to do so as they have to move around with their spouse, and are anxious to contribute through other means. Instead, OnlyFans and other forms of sex work target young women - in particular, those who are in college or university and are facing steep university fees in their future. OnlyFans targets the economically desperate and insecure just as much as conventional MLMs do.

You have control over your own hours / work

Recruitment also becomes necessary to continue making money, not just because of the demand for novelty and the impact on your options outside sex work; but because you will not be able to produce a certain amount of content and then perpetually earn off of it. This is because the male userbase takes pride in purchasing your nudes / videos etc and then sharing them for free with others, including setting up local region-based facebook groups to ‘trade’ nudes etc of women known to them. Soon after producing your content it will have been ripped and copied to many porn hosting sites and shared freely so that it will earn you little or no money beyond that first push, forcing you to participate in the novelty pipeline to continue earning.

Less than 1% make money; most lose money

So, ultimately a more reliable way to earn money through OnlyFans and other forms of sex work is to recruit as the opportunity of selling yourself is exhausted very quickly. The novelty pipeline, and aggressive demands and entitlement of the userbase, are likely to lead to actions you would have never signed up to perform and cause mental and emotional damage to you and those you recruit. Just like an MLM, the only way to really make money is to be one of the first ones on board so that you have the largest possible pool of women to recruit from; OnlyFans, and most other forms of sex work, are well past this stage and have already glutted the market, meaning that few can now expect to profit in any meaningful way from it.

And that's all a million miles away from what they call "full service sex work" but it sounds pretty grim to me.

FlyingOink · 15/11/2021 00:46

Oh and the average earnings per user is $180/month.
A part time job would pay more and you wouldn't end up on porn sites for the rest of your life.
Why on earth would anyone suggest even cam work or Onlyfans as a way to make money?

influencermarketinghub.com/glossary/onlyfans/

Fariha31 · 15/11/2021 07:56

We all have different things and perspectives to offer in any debate, and in this case @MargaritaPie, the best gift you can give your movement right now is silence.

FindTheTruth · 15/11/2021 08:11

New article in the Times

Shame on universities that legitimise ‘sex work’

Share token: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b6dbb888-458a-11ec-9969-911e63457092?shareToken=059aabbd3a266519e39e1bfcead59769

FindTheTruth · 15/11/2021 08:12

Whoops this is the correct share token

Shame on universities that legitimise ‘sex work’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shame-on-universities-that-legitimise-sex-work-5b6ngssb7?shareToken=84c08f5f133417cbd1f9b2daef8014d3

ErrolTheDragon · 15/11/2021 08:33

@MargaritaPie

"prostituted women"

Do you really think the student sex workers want to be referred to as "prostituted women"?

The reality is what matters, not the label. Sex work is prostitution.

Support is needed to prevent youngsters taking this dangerous route, and to exit it if they have taken it.

RoyalCorgi · 15/11/2021 08:36

@Fariha31

We all have different things and perspectives to offer in any debate, and in this case *@MargaritaPie*, the best gift you can give your movement right now is silence.
Seconded. And just remove the "right now".
loislovesstewie · 15/11/2021 08:45

@MargaritaPie

So you don't want Uni's to talk about sex?
God, I went to university absolutely ages ago. We were all at it like rabbits, but we weren't given info about 'how to be a prostitute'. People at university are ADULTS, maybe young adults but of age nonetheless. Most do a lot of growing up in the time they spend there, but surely they should know enough about sex to know how to do it, how not to get pregnant or an STD and how to say no. I don't feel that treating prostitution as a normal part of life is helping anyone and could, in reality, cause all sorts of problems in life.
FlyingOink · 15/11/2021 08:59

I don't feel that treating prostitution as a normal part of life is helping anyone and could, in reality, cause all sorts of problems in life.

Yeah, I think the focus on removing stigma is actually a focus on removing the stigma of being a sex buyer. Otherwise there would be more focus on career opportunities for exited women.

KimikosNightmare · 15/11/2021 09:26

@MargaritaPie

"prostituted women"

Do you really think the student sex workers want to be referred to as "prostituted women"?

Do you have a problem with reality MargaritaPie?
Sonex · 15/11/2021 09:41

Yeah, I think the focus on removing stigma is actually a focus on removing the stigma of being a sex buyer. Otherwise there would be more focus on career opportunities for exited women.

Could not agree with this more. That's why prostitutes were rebranded as escorts - legitimizes it for men and helps portray it as a non-seedy business transaction. And the number of women that still don't realise that escorts ARE prostitutes astounds me.

Calling prostitutes 'escorts' or 'sex workers' is gaslighting of the highest order, and I think young students of either sex need to know that that's what it is and that they need to confront whether their self-esteem will survive looking back on being prostitutes. What seems cool and harmless and empowering as an early twenties adult, with little life experience yet, is very different when you look back at it as a mature adult in your thirties and forties.

I know men now who were happy to use escorts on stag dos etc and are now very conflicted as their daughters become teenagers and they see the shit they have to deal with already on the sexual objectification front. Boo hoo, I hope their guilt was worth those exciting, illicit shags.

MargaritaPie · 15/11/2021 10:25

I suppose you call sex workers wh*res too?

MrsJamin · 15/11/2021 10:36

Wow that Times article pulls no punches. "Sex work" is not work, it is prostitution and universities should not be using this "toolkit" to legitimise prostitution.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/11/2021 10:38

@MargaritaPie

I suppose you call sex workers wh*res too?
No. Why on earth would you think that? Using a deliberately derogatory term for these young women is as bad or worse than using a minimising euphemism like 'sex work'. 'Prostitution' is an accurate, non judgmental term.
KimikosNightmare · 15/11/2021 10:39

@MargaritaPie

I suppose you call sex workers wh*res too?
Keep on digging Margarita.

No-one on here would say that- unlike the punters you're lobbying for.

MargaritaPie · 15/11/2021 10:59

"No-one on here would say that"

Pro-criminalisation Melissa Farley (whom is often used on here as a source on this topic) did amongst other slurs. The judge threw out her evidence in a Canadian court because of her potty mouth and inability to debate without degrading language.

KimikosNightmare · 15/11/2021 11:02

I've never heard of her.
Has she been quoted on here?
Whoever she is, I don't need her to formulate or bolster my opinion that normalising prostitution is wrong.

The only person on here using "whore" is yourself.