DIANE ABBOTT AND SEX WORK ARTICLE IN THE TIMES

[Mollyollydolly]

Diane tweeted about sex work
'Horrific that Durham University is offering training to students who want to be sex workers part-time. Sex work is degrading, dangerous and exploitative. Uni should have nothing to do with it'.
If you really want to depress yourself look at the responses to her tweet. I really don't understand what went wrong on the left, how is prostitution progressive? I just don't get it, some of the replies from the likes of Femi and blue tick Independent journalists make me feel sick. They sound like pimps.

Saddest of all are the young women who have been gaslight into thinking this is a good career choice. So depressing.

You really do seem very invested and knowledgeable about all things relating to punters.

lmgtfy.app/?q=Mumsnet+Adultwork

Let me Google that for you, MPIE

@MargaritaPie

"Is it this kind of thing that’s really empowering"

Sex with a child (paid for or not) is already illegal. He has rightly lost his job and been convicted over this.

Did you read the article MPIE ?

The odious pair from the charity both made the point that if it hadn't been paid for the sex was consented to. They both seemed to think it was terribly unfair he was in trouble at all.

He is technically correct that the age of consent is 16.

Do you think this age should be higher? Or do you think it should be higher if the other person is a lot older?

@MargaritaPie

He is technically correct that the age of consent is 16.

Do you think this age should be higher? Or do you think it should be higher if the other person is a lot older?

I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

You incorrectly said Sex with a child (paid for or not) is already illegal

Sex with a person under 16 is illegal. This girl was not a child in that sense so far as genuinely consensual sex. It is illegal to pay for sex with someone under 18

This creep and his apologist seem to think he was hard done. If she hadn't charged (presumably because she was overwhelmed by his attractiveness) he would not been guilty of anything.

Your questions seem to me completely irrelevant to what is being discussed but no I think 16 is the correct age. I wouldn't want that increased nor would I want the age of marriage raised.

I do however want buying sex to be criminalised.

"I do however want buying sex to be criminalised"

A lot of sex workers, human rights orgs, health orgs, anti-HIV orgs and others who know a lot more about the topic than you do, have other views.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

Rather presumptious of you to declare to @KimikosNightmare that other people 'know a lot more than you do' - you've no idea about her background/experience/knowledge.

@MargaritaPie I've seen you state on various different threads that sex trafficking is practically non existent. You quote Operation Pentameter (2009) as a 'gotcha' quite often.

But the link you gave above talks about sex trafficking in detail, including raids on Soho brothels.

What are your thoughts on this contradiction in your argument?

Brothels are often raided because it's illegal for women to work together.

You haven't answered the question, at all. The link you gave talks in detail about sex trafficking being an issue, a point of view which I have seen you deny exists (or at least in numbers small enough to hand wave away).

You have focused on brothels to avoid answering the question.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

The article talks about causes of trafficking and what helps and doesn't help the victims of trafficking (or those who are suspected of being victims who may or may not be trafficked).

A few quotes:

*"trafficking isn’t caused by the demand for sex, but by people’s poverty and lack of options: people are made vulnerable to traffickers for a number of reasons.....

....Some anti-trafficking initiatives don’t help victims and also cause great harm to sex workers. When police raid brothels in the name of anti-trafficking, it is often migrant sex workers who are arrested. In the UK, when victims of trafficking are ‘rescued’ by police, they can face arrest, detainment as criminals, and forcible deportation...

....Mass raids of workplaces in Soho, in which 250 police officers – many in riot gear, with dog units – raided and closed 18 brothels, resulted in police dragging scantily clad women out onto the street against their will. This was carried out under the guise of stopping trafficking, but failed to refer a single person to the National Referral Mechanism"

When police raid workplaces with the stated aim of arresting clients [in countries with the Nordic Model], it is repeatedly sex workers who are charged.*

And I'm not denying trafficking (for sex and non-sex related reasons) exists. I just find it interesting and curious a 6 month operation by all police forces in the UK to surprise-raid all known brothels and homes of sex workers to find sex-traffickers and their victims fell flat.

Re the raids on Soho brothels mentioned above which were supposedly to combat trafficking, here's a link:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/11/soho-police-raids-sex-workers-fear-trafficking

Own it, Margarita. You are minimising trafficking, as you have repeatedly done before on threads. It really does say a great deal about you.

Strange that you don't seem to be able to post anything current though.

A 6 month operation which took place in 2009

More than a decade ago.

You keep relying on an outdated and irrelevant piece of evidence to back up your argument.

It's quite embarrassing.

@MargaritaPie

And I'm not denying trafficking (for sex and non-sex related reasons) exists. I just find it interesting and curious a 6 month operation by all police forces in the UK to surprise-raid all known brothels and homes of sex workers to find sex-traffickers and their victims fell flat.

Well I hope PM Gordon Brown has something to say about this latest news story. Maybe he can discuss it with the new US President Barack Obama.

[quote MargaritaPie]"I do however want buying sex to be criminalised"

A lot of sex workers, human rights orgs, health orgs, anti-HIV orgs and others who know a lot more about the topic than you do, have other views.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/[/quote]
You seem to know a lot about buying other people's bodies too MPIE

When prostitution was legalised in Germany the only way to meet demand was trafficking
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/trouble-in-paradise-rise-and-fall-of-germany-brothel-king-jurgen-rudloff

I find it a bit disturbing when people argue that prostitution isn't damaging and that all the evidence it is, is wrong.

From what I can see there are only two types of people who would be so invested in maintaining a steady supply of impressionable young women into prostitution.

1, Pimps
2, Punters

I don't know which one MPie is, but they're definitely one of them

Well, @TheWeeDonkey, they have expressed a familiarity with Punternet, a site I cannot imagine many people visiting purely for research purposes in order to evaluate its “age verification checks”

"From what I can see there are only two types of people who would be so invested in maintaining a steady supply of impressionable young women into prostitution"

That isn't what (some) universities, Amnesty Int, World Health org and many local and international health/anti-STD/anti-trafficking and sex worker orgs are aimed at. And you know it.

It's about whatever option is safest and in the best interest for sex workers.

"When prostitution was legalised in Germany....."

Germany is mentioned a lot here. They have legalisation. The signatures of the decrimnow letter advocate for decriminalisation (this is what New Zealand has, it is different from Germany).

"You keep relying on an outdated and irrelevant piece of evidence"

The decrimnow letter is current and signatures are added to it ongoing.

*"You keep relying on an outdated and irrelevant piece of evidence"

The decrimnow letter is current and signatures are added to it ongoing.*

You know full well when I said 'an outdated and irrelevant piece of evidence' that I was referring to the 2009 Police operation which you have referred to numerous times on this thread alone. In fact, I didn't refer to the Decrim letter in the post you have quoted me from at all. If anyone would like to check, my post stands at 17.26 yesterday.

If you have to stoop to such dishonest tactics, it's a clear sign that your argument is poor.

Germany is mentioned a lot here. They have legalisation. The signatures of the decrimnow letter advocate for decriminalisation (this is what New Zealand has, it is different from Germany).
Of course decriminalisation is preferable for people who profit from the sex trade, as they don't have to worry about things like health and safety legislation . If you genuinely believe prostitution is harmless to the workers, why be against it being subject to employment law?

I get really fed up of all the focus being on sex workers and their right to sell a service. I want to talk about the John's, and how we stop men feeling like sex is an entitlement. That view causes so much harm to society and women (rape, sexual assault, coercive control in marriages, marital breakdowns due to men using sex workers etc etc)
I agree with Nimco Ali. Men should be embarassed to use sex workers. Society should be making it unacceptable. Decriminalisation or legalisation does the opposite.