I think I remember passing through this stage OP and being shocked at how blunt feminists here were. In part, it was my female socialisation at work, and it took time and reading to realise: I don't believe that any one group, trans people included, is more special or should be treated in a more particular way than anyone else. And I don't believe that any one group, female humans included, is less deserving of rights and inclusion and having their voices heard than anyone else.
When I worried about 'oh but they're being so rude about it' what I was largely following was my own internal instincts that women have a job to suck up unpleasant behaviour and care for others in spite of it, and that this group was in some way some kind of responsibility for women. That was what I needed to sort out in my head and then I realised why women were talking so very bluntly about this board being women focused. And talking about their anger and frustration about the ceaseless, relentless lack of care, consideration, basic interest in female humans coming from this political viewpoint. To the point where the difference in standards of what this political movement demands women give (politeness, absolute courtesy, language respected, choice of identity respected, individual expression respected, legal protections respected) compared to what it gives to those women. Which is to refuse, often rudely, loudly, aggressively and mockingly, to even listen to women trying to talk about their needs. Their choice of words. Their identity. Their inclusion. Their diversity and intersectionality.
There is a point you realise that those words really are a nonsense: because this relationship is not reciprocal. It's not equal. It's about all take and no give, and not even politely or kindly not giving. And this comes right from the top of the politics and movement. Five minutes on the relationships board would help you sort out what a woman should do when she finds herself in a relationship with this kind of dynamic. Encouraging her to stay and continue to suck up the ill treatment for the sake of someone else's needs (including to treat her badly) while putting herself last won't be the advice, will it?
We have had many TW posting here over the years. I remember too the shocked feeling I had about how little they were praised and thanked for supporting women and considering women's rights - and then realised yet again how totally socialised I was. When I really listened to what longer term posters were saying, and really looked at the posts - because I don't think what I'm told to, I think for myself - I could see. For myself. Go and find the threads and look, there have been recent ones. When you really look, most of those TW are not here because of an interest in or care for women or their rights. That isn't their focus. What they are worried about - understandably- is that when lines are drawn, they are drawn where that TW would like them, and it is about trying to steer women into some kind of situation where some TW are admitted to women's spaces while others are excluded. Often that leads to discussions about the idea of different kinds of groups within transitioners.
The thing is -
- this still reflects a belief being a woman but being a more important kind of woman, who gets to make the decisions and tell the female ones what they can and can't have. Often those TW have said in effect 'I've heard your evidence and my decision is....' (often to go on using women's spaces). This is sexist. Look for the paternal tone. This is anything but seeing female people as having agency or rights to decide separately from male people; it sees male people as the senior managers of life and female people as the employees. No. I'm not signing up for that. Particularly from someone using sex as a reason while telling me that my sex is irrelevant.
- those posters usually cannot reasonably discuss that this genie is now out of the bottle and it won't go back. There is now no way to gatekeep a women's space that lets in some males while refusing others. The compromise was the GRA. That was an attempt to let in some males under some very specific circumstances. Unfortunately men as a sex class have proved: if given an inch into women's spaces, that door will be slammed open to the fullest possible extent. Based on a general and wholly normalised belief among the male sex class of their superiority and priority over females, among other things.
- Those TW posters cannot discuss or accept that no matter how lovely or sincere a male person is in their transition that some females are still excluded by their presence , that there's no point in talking about how important inclusion is when you're excluding others and insisting that's fine, that female spaces are first and foremost there to meet female needs and those excluded females cannot fall back on another space to use as TW can, and that there is an answer, which is a mixed sex space AND a female only space so everyone can have access and be included, lived experience, intersectionality, kindness, etc etc.
What tends to happen at this point is 1) those women don't exist 2) any female space will be used and females can't stop this (which doesn't exactly help with the whole trust and working together thing, and makes again the power dynamic and lack of mutual respect in this relationship blatant) and 3) we usually eventually get to 'those women are excluded because of trauma/disability/sexuality/ faith/ culture/ race that is wrong, they should get over those feelings (for the sake of TW) and learn to cope with what male born people see as the goal.
At that point, yes, I see clearly why females organise for females and there cannot be any mixed sex planning here. And yes, my patience is now slipping fast. The way to fix this is to get some of this political lobby to do some fast fence mending with women, because this is good will starting to go, it's been squandered. But you will find when you try, a fixed belief that women deserve this and the only possible solution is that women obey.
My answer and many women's answer to this is No. That wont ever be happening. And there will be women who will go to prison for this if necessary.