MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10173649/M-S-diversity-managers-staff-pronoun-badges-customers-know-address-them.html

I will be emailing the appropriate departments advising them that gender ideology is still a hot political topic; its decision to allow men to use women's changing rooms made me so uncomfortable that I will not shop for clothes in their stores any more, but its decision to push a political stance with which I fundamentally disagree means I won't be using them at all from now on.

So sad, because I love their trousers and their Christmas party foods.

And will they ask for yours now?

So it's all right to say

" that staff assistant was a complete dick head . < insert correct pronoun> probably couldn't < insert insult of your choice>

And it's horrid to say was fabulous, so helpful and kind

You weird transphobes!

Didn't take long.

@CatherinaJTV

Clara's colleagues who work with Clara every day but not closely, need to know if Clara prefers for them to use they/them when discussing Clara. In a large store its entirely possible you dont know all your coworkers names let alone their pronouns - and why would you make someone feel uncomfortable when there's no need to by deliberately misgendering them?

Indeed! But apparently, this is a call to fight or something.

Oh there's no transphobia here though, definitely not. It does no harm to respect how people uncomfortable with a gender binary, or transitioning, would like to be referred to and yet some people can't even manage that, because transwomen in prison or some bullshit.

Let's say Clara comes to help out on your team - you say to someone else that Clara is here for 2 hours to help. If Clara is wearing a pronoun badge with they/them but is a biological female, which pronouns do you use to refer to Clara as?

Well if I was talking to Clara then Clara would fit the bill nicely. If I was talking to someone else about Clara, then Clara would no longer be in front of me and I would unlikely remember anything on a badge.

@CatherinaJTV
You seem to have missed my question so I’ll post it again

no, the best way to do that would be to squash the patriarchy and its associated assumptions. People would not have preconceptions regarding my abilities or behaviours and I would still be a woman.

Ok
I’m a woman because I’m an adult female.
In what way am I the same as a trans woman?
Obviously, you need to name similarities that don’t “have preconceptions regarding my abilities or behaviours”

Let's say that Clara is clearly female but has he/him badge

Clara , a manager , is currently stacking shelves an aisle away from a clearly male colleague

a member of the public comes up , asks a tricky question

You reply
"See that staff assistant over there , he can help you"

Who does the public go to? Why?

How about we change perception of women, rather than be triggered by someone showing their pronouns into absolutely inappropriate behaviour?

How about you go to that agricultural place, or other online male hangouts, and tell the men there precisely that?

Why harangue women for male violence?

because transwomen in prison or some bullshit.

Over 40% of trans women in prisons are there for sexual crimes as opposed to 19% of the general male prison population.

If women being raped by males or incarcerated with male rapists while they’re in a literally inescapable place is “some bullshit” to you, you have something missing

@Whitefire

Why is it handy to know someone's pronouns?

No idea. They are used in the absence of the individual. So knowing pronouns is a bit useless if you are in a shop trying to find someone. A name badge with a name on it is far more useful - but scores far less on the Scale of Woke!

@Whitefire

Let's say Clara comes to help out on your team - you say to someone else that Clara is here for 2 hours to help. If Clara is wearing a pronoun badge with they/them but is a biological female, which pronouns do you use to refer to Clara as?

Well if I was talking to Clara then Clara would fit the bill nicely. If I was talking to someone else about Clara, then Clara would no longer be in front of me and I would unlikely remember anything on a badge.

That's not necessarily the case. Imagination doesnt seem to be your strong suit, so I'll spell it out even more. Say you're working together to unpack a trolley of goods onto the shelf. A colleague walks up and asks how you're getting on and how long it's going to take you. You state Clara is here to help and she/they will be there for another 2 hours.

Which pronouns do you use for Clara? You aren't talking to Clara but Clara is within earshot.

Lokdok what if it doesn't make someone feel comfortable?

It's a small part of a much bigger issue. A slippery slope.

You don't get that many of us feel very uncomfortable with the gender binary and reject it outright

But bloody aware of the sex binary

And so having gender shoved down my throat really makes me gag

Being forced to accept a gender to make so some else feel better about accepting one that they feel is inconsistent with thier sex is beyond stupid

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Isn’t that likely to put trans staff at greater risk of abuse from customers? Seems bonkers to me.

Wow victim blaming much. Would you say the same about women and how they dress.

I can hardly get worked up about pronoun badges. It provides further information and as long as it is optional it stops the dinosaurs the misgendering people who have obviously made it clear their pronoun. But that doesn't mean to me that they should be allowed in a single sex space that doesn't match their sex.

The pronouns thing creates an unsafe environment for customers.

It leads to situations where you might unwittingly misgender someone; and even scrutinising someone's badge for too long could be taken as making an insulting point.

In the meanwhile, you are (mostly, these days) transacting by card, so they have your details when you forget whether it's "she/her" or "she/they".

Next thing you (don't) know is, they've contacted the police and you have a non-hate criminal record.

An unlikely scenario, I hope, but definitely one that could happen in the current climate.

I don't see how it's relevant to food/clothes shops. 'Excuse me, where can I find the giant knickers that hold my stomach in?' And 'thank you' need no pronouns.

It's all a bit invasive.

Which pronouns do you use for Clara? You aren't talking to Clara but Clara is within earshot.

None of them. Because the fear instilled by the Pronoun Police would have me stuttering and double thinking. I'd make up a mangled fuckwitted sentence that avoided pronouns altogether.

Just like we have to do here on the Pronoun Police's Citizen Training Ground.

Where on earth are you lot going to shop when you find out tesco sainsbury and
asda are following suit?

Ridiculous. The only pronoun I'll use when addressing a member of staff is "you". Why would I call them he/she/it?

It's virtue signalling nonsense. And @CatherinaJTV, I know many employees forced into this outrageously unfair practice (usually email signatures) because they have felt unable to opt out. It's bullying.

It's not their pronouns is it? They don't own the words

Pronouns are words other people use ... their words, their pronouns... to describe other people

The purpose is describing, they become meaningless if they don't help the descriptions

I suspect there will be plenty of places to shop as most people think it's a complete pile of nonsense

We had a work email about it last week, asking which pronoun we'd prefer on our e-mail signatures.

I don't want one. Is it ok to say that? I just don't want it, it feels like it's being forced on me.

I have no problem referring to anyone else with the pronoun they have chosen for themselves, if they are that bothered about it. But I don't like it, don't want to chose a pronoun.

I think you missed the point @Mouseonmychair.

Threats would more likely come from a man, as per usual. When would avoid or play nice. Men are more likely to be confrontational.

There's a difference between victim blaming and recognising the target pinned to someone's chest!

If women being raped by males or incarcerated with male rapists while they’re in a literally inescapable place is “some bullshit” to you, you have something missing

Quite. Just nasty, while pitching a fit of the vapours over "misgendering".

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]@CatherinaJTV
You seem to have missed my question so I’ll post it again

no, the best way to do that would be to squash the patriarchy and its associated assumptions. People would not have preconceptions regarding my abilities or behaviours and I would still be a woman.

Ok
I’m a woman because I’m an adult female.
In what way am I the same as a trans woman?
Obviously, you need to name similarities that don’t “have preconceptions regarding my abilities or behaviours”[/quote]
we didn't talk about trans women at all, we talked about women putting their pronouns and how others have preconceptions regarding women's compentencies and behaviours. You may have missed it, but the argument that putting pronouns puts (cis) women at risk is quite frequently used here.