MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10173649/M-S-diversity-managers-staff-pronoun-badges-customers-know-address-them.html

I will be emailing the appropriate departments advising them that gender ideology is still a hot political topic; its decision to allow men to use women's changing rooms made me so uncomfortable that I will not shop for clothes in their stores any more, but its decision to push a political stance with which I fundamentally disagree means I won't be using them at all from now on.

So sad, because I love their trousers and their Christmas party foods.

Why do people think pronouns are going to be even used when speaking to a shop assistant/office worker/anyone? The whole hoohah about pronouns is weird. As my mother would say' who's SHE, the cats mother?'

M&S employs many middle aged women. They also shop there. Most will have no idea what is going on.

It would be good if this thread could somehow be moved to where ordinary women who don’t think of themselves as being feminist might see it.

Incidentally, I had an order to pick up from M&S the other day so I took my Woman: Adult Human Female bag to combat any pronoun badges I encountered like a force field or something but I didn’t need to bring it into play.

It would be good if this thread could somehow be moved to where ordinary women who don’t think of themselves as being feminist might see it

It would also be good if a link to it were somehow to find its way into the inbox of m and s customer services..

i think the point for me is, I'm cool with people believing all kinds of nonsense, so long as it doesn't harm others.

i don't want it in my face and i don't want apparently sensible institutions endorsing it. what next? 'ask me about why vaccination is all a plot' badges for M&S staff?

Even if this is "optional" for staff I would guarantee there will be people who feel they have no choice but to wear a badge with pronouns .

Sadly agree with the poster who said we will now find this the norm on name badges

@KittenKong

I must take a wander I to my local. If I spot one I shall point say ‘no thank you’ and walk out.

you do that. because they totally about care what you think.

Are you saying that M&S don't care about customers?
That always ends well for a business

Ppl often come in here telling us we’re wasting our time when we complain and no one is listening

i tend to think what they really mean is ‘stop complaining because far too many ppl have now started to listen’

Ah but kitten is one amongst many. Her actions alone won't change anything, but the combined effort of a vocal minority will.

How do you think we got here in the first place?

My partner works for M&S no mention of pronoun badges at all. So not sure what's going on, we are in the south west so not known for its right on credentials.

I noticed that one poster has the view that if you 'go out of your way' to avoid using pronouns that shows transphobic 'intent'. And I have to say...you probably shouldn't throw around words like 'transphobic' so freely. To be honest, if me going out of my way to be polite to someone without buying into gender theory is 'transphobic' then my reaction is to shrug and say 'ok, so I'm a transphobic then.' I appreciate that the threat of being called a transphobe is supposed to be shocking, and to bring me back into line, but when I'm given that label for the content of my invisible thoughts then it just loses its sting.

Theeyeballsinthesky It's bizarre isn't it. We aren't allowed to complain,no one will care so we might as not bother.
But TRA's issue one complaint and companies seem to fall over themselves to apologise and backtrack. Why would that be? Are complainants not seen as equal? It's a mystery,for sure....

I appreciate that the threat of being called a transphobe is supposed to be shocking, and to bring me back into line, but when I'm given that label for the content of my invisible thoughts then it just loses its sting.

Same here. If TRAs and their supporters want to make the word meaningless then just carry on 🤷‍♀️

Is there actually a law that you have to use proffered pronouns?

Preferred

No. But sometimes it's trumped up as "harassment" which can then be classed as a hate crime.

Transphobic means nothing WeeBisom, it's a completely neutral word now, probably the only phobic word that is.

I think the staff would have the choice of whether they wear them or not, isn't there a human rights law that says you cannot insist an employee declare their sexual orientation or gender identity? On the basis of employees being entitled to privacy.

If it's optional then it's a really fast way to know which M&S staff members are misogynistic homophobes.

I jars with me to refer to a person as 'they' . It is an offence to English grammar

I think the staff would have the choice of whether they wear them or not, isn't there a human rights law that says you cannot insist an employee declare their sexual orientation or gender identity?

It's part of the Yogyakarta Principles that TRAs push as an international legal consensus on gender identity.

Why do people think pronouns are going to be even used when speaking to a shop assistant/office worker/anyone? The whole hoohah about pronouns is weird. As my mother would say' who's SHE, the cats mother?'

^This. I can't think of a single instance where I would need to use a shop assistant's 'preferred pronoun' . If I need assistance I would approach an assistant and say excuse me could you help me with x, y, z. Not hello she
/he/they can you help me. Its just ridiculous. Even I was referring to an assistant whilst speaking to another I would likely say your colleague/that man/woman etc.
I was raised with the 'who is she, the cats mother'. It was considered rude not to address people by their names or title.

As Findthetruth says.

These are political symbols.

They state allegiance with a political position now infamous for its controveriality with regard to trying to deny and remove women's sex base rights, change safeguarding, which supports overt homophobia, abuse of women in prisons, and in all things the supremacy of male wishes and feelings over female ones while insisting at the same time that badges are needed to work out who gets everything they demand and who gets told to shut up, put up and serve or else.

It's a symbol of aggression to me. It instantly removes my sense of trust, of safety, of this person being someone not declaring they are prejudiced against me as a woman and a lesbian and I'd better watch what I say or else.

No thanks.

I mean I stopped going into M&S at the point of men gleefully sharing how they use the women's changing rooms to spunk on the floor and on underwear they then put back out on the floor in hope of a woman touching it; I would not walk into that place now without a hazmat suit, but this pretty much ends any lingering chance of mediation.

@Noducksgiven

Why do people think pronouns are going to be even used when speaking to a shop assistant/office worker/anyone? The whole hoohah about pronouns is weird. As my mother would say' who's SHE, the cats mother?'

^This. I can't think of a single instance where I would need to use a shop assistant's 'preferred pronoun' . If I need assistance I would approach an assistant and say excuse me could you help me with x, y, z. Not hello she
/he/they can you help me. Its just ridiculous. Even I was referring to an assistant whilst speaking to another I would likely say your colleague/that man/woman etc.
I was raised with the 'who is she, the cats mother'. It was considered rude not to address people by their names or title.

Exactly- a poster has been "tying" (herself/ himself/ themselves) "in knots" to create a situation where one would use a pronoun.

And again there was mention of it atvsome poibt so my dp who works there says but absolutely no pressure abd take up by staff so i suspect a complete non issue sorted by sensible staff.