MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10173649/M-S-diversity-managers-staff-pronoun-badges-customers-know-address-them.html

I will be emailing the appropriate departments advising them that gender ideology is still a hot political topic; its decision to allow men to use women's changing rooms made me so uncomfortable that I will not shop for clothes in their stores any more, but its decision to push a political stance with which I fundamentally disagree means I won't be using them at all from now on.

So sad, because I love their trousers and their Christmas party foods.

[quote FindTheTruth]LGB Alliance @ALLIANCELGB
1./ What's the TRUTH about LGB Alliance? Our critics like to claim we're funded by extremists and, despite the fact we've many trans supporters, that we don't support trans rights, even although we do. So WHY do so many people believe the myths?
twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1450846531305840648

Myths LGBA
lgballiance.org.uk/myths/[/quote]
"Myths about LGB Alliance, according to LGB Alliance"

@MargaritaPie the website included in your last post included a link to the Charity Commission's decision regarding LGB Alliance's charitable status. From that report -

'35.The Commission looked at whether LGB Alliance’s purpose inevitably involves the denigration of the rights of transgender people and considered that it did not. The Commission noted that LGB Alliance asserts that it engages constructively and respectfully with representatives of the transgender community, has a number of supporters within the transgender community, invited transgender supporters to attend and speak at the meetings it has held and has spoken publicly about its commitment to equality and respect for transgender people. LGB Alliance’s website states that its values include that of respect: “We engage with others respectfully. We discuss, propose, and oppose ideas; we do not attack individuals. Disagreement does not equal hate. We do not condone, endorse, or encourage any abusive or discriminatory behaviour towards any group or individual”'

Whose judgement should I trust I wonder? Evidence based research by an impartial body or the rantings of someone who has repeatedly voiced anti-women objections. Hmm......

And before you do the inevitable TRA thing of 'but they made mean tweets!!', I'll quote the relevant part of the report -

'37.During the course of the registration case, the Commission noted some evidence of social media activity (information that was posted or re-posted on social media) by LGB Alliance and considered that some of the language used may be regarded as inflammatory and offensive. In addition, it was not immediately obvious how some of these postings furthered any of the LGB Alliance’s purposes. The Commission was concerned that, although it promoted the rights of some groups, the activity appeared to involve, at times, demeaning or denigrating the rights (recognised by law) of others.

38.The Commission raised these concerns with LGB Alliance and in response LGB Alliance reviewed and revised its social media policy. LGB Alliance stated that it intended to adopt a less defensive and confrontational approach to social media engagement. The revised social media policy places a focus on the language and tone of the social media posts and states that staff must never: unlawfully discriminate; make offensive, abusive or threatening comments or harass or bully other people in any way or breach any laws or ethical standards.'

I wonder if Stonewall could say the same?

Am I missing something here?

If I am interacting with a staff member wearing a badge saying "he/HIM/his", the only pronouns I am likely to need to use are "you/your/yours," and "I/me/my/mine".

@QuinionsRainbow

I think it will cause confusion and we'll hear about well meaning shoppers assuming these words are necessary and saying "excuse me Dan, can they help me find...?", then "thanks to he for looking".

I feel sorry for the staff who are, in effect, collateral damage in the latest stunt.

"I wonder if Stonewall could say the same"

What are you talking about? I've never seen Stonewall compare LGBT inclusion to bestiality...

@Ohmygodyesthatsit

I hope that everyone who is now boycotting M&S will be checking that the new companies they support are not doing pronoun badges.

Well I doubt that my local greengrocer will be sporting them, he's still weighing in imperial. Neither am I likely to see pronouns at the butcher or fishmonger. I don't have any immediate plans to buy clothes so that's not a concern.

@DdraigGoch i dont really get your point? Of course i am not saying check your local butcher etc. Its more that pps are recommending other companies that are just the same as m&s which makes boycotting m&s slightly pointless if the new shop does the same.

@MargaritaPie

"I wonder if Stonewall could say the same"

What are you talking about? I've never seen Stonewall compare LGBT inclusion to bestiality...

"Acceptance without exception"

Apart from homosexuals, of course, who are like racists.

I would find it very difficult to boycott M&S these days as their offering is so rubbish that I have no reason to go there. Their food hall no longer differentiates itself from other supermarkets. And, as any bra-related thread on MN will tell you going back years, they have always been completely rubbish at fitting bras. They always tell you a back size too large and a cup size too small.

For me M&S is a symbolic shop. It represents U.K. values like Cadbury’s used to. It is almost like an official institution.

That is my imo it is upsetting if they have taken up trans political ideology.

ScrollingLeaves unfortunately I think that is now just nostalgia. They are desperately trying not to go the way of other 'institutions' like Woolworths and badges are cheap.

@MargaritaPie

"I wonder if Stonewall could say the same"

What are you talking about? I've never seen Stonewall compare LGBT inclusion to bestiality...

I've borrowed this from another poster, on another thread as I thought they said it so well -

'Stonewall themselves have plenty of incriminating info on their own site. It’s written they oppose single sex exemptions in the equality act, they opposed rape by deception claus, they redefined homosexual as same gender attracted, just look at their definitions of what a girl or woman is. Nancy Kelly in the bbc article saying homosexuality is a societal prejudice. Stonewall employee gave talks on how to break through the cotton ceiling. Stonewall are pro puberty blockers. And maliciously represent the equality act as having gender instead of sex in the protected characteristic.'

And as for the 'bestiality' thing, I can't remember the details (and Googling bestiality doesn't seem like the best idea) but was it not an objection to adding paraphillias like bestiality to the LGBGQI+? I would be more worried if they had advocated for it to be honest.

M&S have just replied to my online feedback confirming that the pronoun badges are indeed optional for all staff.
'I can confirm that using a name badge that includes an individual's preferred pronouns is entirely optional for M&S colleagues. I would like to assure you I have noted your concerns in relation to this.'

Wonder how optional it feels on the ground?

Wonder how optional it feels on the ground?

It's definitely optional on the ground.

They are actually still a big employer in Britain with good HR policies, loads of female workers, enhanced mat leave pay, sick pay. In gig economy Britain these things are a bonus. I suspect most of their staff won't put their pronouns on badges.

@godwingolly

Wonder how optional it feels on the ground?

It's definitely optional on the ground.

They are actually still a big employer in Britain with good HR policies, loads of female workers, enhanced mat leave pay, sick pay. In gig economy Britain these things are a bonus. I suspect most of their staff won't put their pronouns on badges.

Good to hear. It's my favourite shop.

“dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

M&S have just replied to my online feedback confirming that the pronoun badges are indeed optional for all staff.
'I can confirm that using a name badge that includes an individual's preferred pronouns is entirely optional for M&S colleagues. I would like to assure you I have noted your concerns in relation to this.'“

I am pleased to learn of this.

I wonder if the BBC decision will have a wider impact on M & S John Lewis etc, who may not yet have clocked just how political SW and it's Diversity Champions Scheme is and how much it impacts on women. I live in hope

@highame

I wonder if the BBC decision will have a wider impact on M & S John Lewis etc, who may not yet have clocked just how political SW and it's Diversity Champions Scheme is and how much it impacts on women. I live in hope

....not just women, vulnerable children and teenagers too. Most everyone cares about their kids after all.

@ScrollingLeaves

“dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

M&S have just replied to my online feedback confirming that the pronoun badges are indeed optional for all staff.
'I can confirm that using a name badge that includes an individual's preferred pronouns is entirely optional for M&S colleagues. I would like to assure you I have noted your concerns in relation to this.'“

I am pleased to learn of this.

Yeah if it's optional all good.

Why would they do it on the first place.

Do the badges indicate who is a first aider, who knows how to use a defibrillator, who can assist customers who have learneing difficulties/fight problems, who can use BSL, who can speak french...?

Wonder how optional it feels on the ground?

YY.

@KittenKong their badges do say whos a first aider, who speaks sign language who has done dementia training etc. Some info is on separate badges some on the name badge.
And i can 100% confirm it is entirely optional and in many cases not even mentioned to staff.

These are things that are useful for customers, patients (in hospitals - where the pronoun brigade have also landed).

These ones are purely for the wearer.

This is bizarre. I can think of no circumstances under which I'd need to know either the sex or the gender of a shop assistant. It's a store, not a bloody dating site.

If I need to refer to them I'll use their name or say e.g. 'that person over there' .