MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10173649/M-S-diversity-managers-staff-pronoun-badges-customers-know-address-them.html

I will be emailing the appropriate departments advising them that gender ideology is still a hot political topic; its decision to allow men to use women's changing rooms made me so uncomfortable that I will not shop for clothes in their stores any more, but its decision to push a political stance with which I fundamentally disagree means I won't be using them at all from now on.

So sad, because I love their trousers and their Christmas party foods.

It is surprising if M&S are unaware of the large range of things for women that they sell; you'd think they might have noticed over the years that a large part of their customer base is female.

As usual, people are missing the simple fact that if men who are trans are allowed to do something, all men are allowed to do it provided they are prepared to claim to identify as women. Which given that some men are prepared to embrace entire careers in order to gain access to vulnerable women and children for sexual reasons, is a fairly hefty point to miss.

I hope all the staff change their pronouns four times a week and demand multiple badges on an ongoing basis.
What if i dont know what my pronouns will be before i wake that day?
Is 'I' as a pronoun still ok to use? I identify as i/me.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime I find it mad that people neglect this fact constantly as if putting on a dress would be too much effort.

Tbf I think most staff are treating it with the contempt it deserves and refusing to join in.
Although before anyone jumps on me I know isnt the point and yes it only takes one to kick up a fuss at being mispronoued.

@Ohmygodyesthatsit

Tbf I think most staff are treating it with the contempt it deserves and refusing to join in. Although before anyone jumps on me I know isnt the point and yes it only takes one to kick up a fuss at being mispronoued.

Look, it's obviously good that people don't care, or actively disagree, or treat it with contempt. But, as you rightly said, that's not the point.

Go back five years, who would ever have thought, in a month of Sundays, that workers at M&S would be offered preferred pronouns on a bloody badge for the sake of people who want to be the opposite sex???

Do not underestimate the massive push to make this happen.

I suppose i am clinging to the hope that if enough people ignore, treat with contempt etc. it will undermine the madness and it will slowly die a death.

If in a year they review this initiative and only 20 people for example have asked for preferred pronoun badges that sends a pretty strong message that no one wabts this.

Unless they go down the Scottish Government route of 'encouraging' staff to declare pronouns - www.holyrood.com/news/view,majority-of-scottish-government-civil-servants-say-theyll-never-add-pronouns-to-their-email-signatures

Sorry, link didn't work -www.holyrood.com/news/view,majority-of-scottish-government-civil-servants-say-theyll-never-add-pronouns-to-their-email-signatures

@Ohmygodyesthatsit

If in a year they review this initiative and only 20 people for example have asked for preferred pronoun badges that sends a pretty strong message that no one wabts this.

I guess it completely depends on what advice stonewall give them to push it.

Maybe i am being naive and hopeful

I guess it completely depends on what advice stonewall give them to push it.

Not even advice - if they're submitting to be ranked in the Workplace Equality Index (which would largely be driven by their LGBT+ Network, so the same people), the take-up metrics would represent a significant internal indicator of success or failure.

Obviously, if it fails to catch on, it's not a strand worth reporting in their WEI submission. And since it costs money to get new badges, it makes commercial sense that the initiative would net them Stonewall points.

So companies end up putting themselves under pressure to promote trans initiatives, even outside of Stonewall’s advice to them.

Maybe M&S will drop SW to save money when they see their initiatives don't increase their sales margins, possibly even decrease them.

I have a Christmas food order booked, but now will not order above that and no Christmas biscuits etc.

Tunnocks are getting my support.

Complain?

"Tunnocks are getting my support"

I emailed Tunnocks at the time to ask if they were aware who they had donated to, and this was their reply:

"Many thanks for getting in touch. As I’m sure you will understand Tunnock’s Biscuits receive hundreds of donation requests per week. Our policy is we try and give a little to a lot, and the last thing we expect, is to offend anyone. We fully appreciate your stance, and thank you for bringing the matter to our attention, and will of course look into the matter."

It seems to me this doesn't necessary mean Tunnucks are anti-trans, they donate to a wide range of orgs and probably thought LGBA was just another gay-rights org (an easy mistake to make given their name) without really knowing who they are. I hope they are aware now.

Well, this is annoying. I haven’t shopped at M&S for a few years. First, because I was out of the country for a while and second, because of the changing rooms and online underwear reviews.

But time has passed and I need some new underwear. So last week, I put £310 worth of underwear in my online shopping basket.

And then I read about the pronoun badges.

I will not be returning to my M&S shopping trolley. Bye bye Autograph undies. I’ll find somewhere else to go.

Some people might think that is an overreaction and cutting my nose off to spite my face but let me explain why I am doing that.

1. This wokery crap makes me roll my eyes.
2. I believe pronoun badges (like pronouns in emails) actively harm women.*
3. I’m not convinced they ( pronoun badges) actually support transgender people anyway.

I will not support a company that does not support and actively harms them.

• actively harms. Could I have used the phrase ‘literal violence’ here? I mean harm in the sense that it alters the way women are both perceived and treated in business to their detriment. I now also see it as a political statement with which I do not agree. I do not support politics in the work place.

@MargaritaPie

"Tunnocks are getting my support"

I emailed Tunnocks at the time to ask if they were aware who they had donated to, and this was their reply:

"Many thanks for getting in touch. As I’m sure you will understand Tunnock’s Biscuits receive hundreds of donation requests per week. Our policy is we try and give a little to a lot, and the last thing we expect, is to offend anyone. We fully appreciate your stance, and thank you for bringing the matter to our attention, and will of course look into the matter."

It seems to me this doesn't necessary mean Tunnucks are anti-trans, they donate to a wide range of orgs and probably thought LGBA was just another gay-rights org (an easy mistake to make given their name) without really knowing who they are. I hope they are aware now.

What's wrong with LGBA?

They are a legally registered charity representing same sex attracted LGB, aren't they?

I see the pronoun badges as a nightmare, my eyesight is poor, so I don't even usually see name badges, let alone pronoun subscript.

One the pronouns are written and on display, there will be an expectation that they be used. I'm not particularly comfortable with such an expectation.

I tend to think, in customer service, the fewer communication barriers/concerns, the more likely customers are to seek help and feel satisfied.

If I have to worry about whether or not compelled speech is required, how I'm going to handle that and what might go wrong; I just wouldn't bother at all.

Not that I shop there anymore anyway since the changing rooms became mixed.

I could be wrong, it may just be a blip on their website, but you can’t email M&S at the moment or contact them except via web chat, and that doesn’t touch a real person.

I’m going with they’ve turned off the ability for customers to let them know how ridiculous pronouns badges are. And political and uncomfortable-making. I had been boycotting them over the changing rooms then cracked and had ordered some furniture.

I’ll vote with my feet again.

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]It may be an opportune moment to share this thread:

archive.md/bBshL[/quote]
Good god. It's paints the background to all this and why pronoun badges are not benign unless you're actually trans and not necessary for any trans person presenting at their gender identity.

(Question: don't want to derail but was there a thread on the trans-sister in law demanding to be be in the room when she was giving birth?)

I hope that everyone who is now boycotting M&S will be checking that the new companies they support are not doing pronoun badges.

I guess they won’t l know unless you tell them.

Sales are down...let the change the clothes ranges... nothing to do with pronouns and unisex changing rooms... lalalala

Many thanks for getting in touch. As I’m sure you will understand Tunnock’s Biscuits receive hundreds of donation requests per week. Our policy is we try and give a little to a lot, and the last thing we expect, is to offend anyone. We fully appreciate your stance, and thank you for bringing the matter to our attention, and will of course look into the matter."

Yes Margarita, that's what's known in the trade as a brush off. Well played, Tunnocks, show the world that not everyone gives into purity spiralling Twitter tantrums.

Was it the milk people and potatoes (?) who went down the same theme?

I don't even like wearing my name tag at all, let alone putting some pronouns on them. I don't want creepers finding out my full name and stalking me.

Customers don't need to know my name either - have a problem with my work? Give a time you were served and the manager can see who was working as and when.

Thankfully, I already don't shop at M&S so this is an easy swerve but I think the next big thing should be eradicating name tags, personally.

I might take a mosey through today (I have to pass 3 large branches) and see if o can spot the pronoun. It’s like Pokemon