MS are handing out pronoun badges to their staff

[PostingForTheFirstTime]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10173649/M-S-diversity-managers-staff-pronoun-badges-customers-know-address-them.html

I will be emailing the appropriate departments advising them that gender ideology is still a hot political topic; its decision to allow men to use women's changing rooms made me so uncomfortable that I will not shop for clothes in their stores any more, but its decision to push a political stance with which I fundamentally disagree means I won't be using them at all from now on.

So sad, because I love their trousers and their Christmas party foods.

It seems to me this doesn't necessary mean Tunnucks are anti-trans, they donate to a wide range of orgs and probably thought LGBA was just another gay-rights org (an easy mistake to make given their name) without really knowing who they are. I hope they are aware now

No one here has been saying that Tunnocks are 'anti-trans' and no one wants them to be. Also, no one is 'anti-trans'. Simply, we are pro-women and pro women's own spaces and we understand sexed identity as having a biological basis. So that accusation is both incorrect and offensive.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

Well, this is annoying. I haven’t shopped at M&S for a few years. First, because I was out of the country for a while and second, because of the changing rooms and online underwear reviews.

But time has passed and I need some new underwear. So last week, I put £310 worth of underwear in my online shopping basket.

And then I read about the pronoun badges.

I will not be returning to my M&S shopping trolley. Bye bye Autograph undies. I’ll find somewhere else to go.

Some people might think that is an overreaction and cutting my nose off to spite my face but let me explain why I am doing that.

1. This wokery crap makes me roll my eyes.
2. I believe pronoun badges (like pronouns in emails) actively harm women.*
3. I’m not convinced they ( pronoun badges) actually support transgender people anyway.

I will not support a company that does not support and actively harms them.

• actively harms. Could I have used the phrase ‘literal violence’ here? I mean harm in the sense that it alters the way women are both perceived and treated in business to their detriment. I now also see it as a political statement with which I do not agree. I do not support politics in the work place.

Buy from Braisimo instead I think thats how its spelled they are good, been shopping with them for years, they were the only shop that actually had my size 30FF. and proper bra fitters, they do online and have a catalogue too.

@Ohmygodyesthatsit

I hope that everyone who is now boycotting M&S will be checking that the new companies they support are not doing pronoun badges.

This is the problem, so many have been stonewalled. I posted before that I could not give up M&S. It is my favourite shop and I missed it so much when I lived abroad. I have sent online feedback though.

"[LGBA] are representing same sex attracted LGB, aren't they"

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people:

LGB Alliance @ALLIANCELGB
1./ What's the TRUTH about LGB Alliance? Our critics like to claim we're funded by extremists and, despite the fact we've many trans supporters, that we don't support trans rights, even although we do. So WHY do so many people believe the myths?
twitter.com/ALLIANCELGB/status/1450846531305840648

Myths LGBA
lgballiance.org.uk/myths/

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people

Rubbish. And a video from a talking head from the Greens is hardly evidence - just an opinion that happens to agree with yours.

The LGB was set up to protect the rights of same-sex attracted people.

It might be news to you that trans people are not the only ones with rights!

[quote MargaritaPie]"[LGBA] are representing same sex attracted LGB, aren't they"

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people:

[/quote] It’s debatable whether anyone is fighting to protect the rights of trans people, because the current orthodoxy of organisations like Stonewall is that there is no objective way to distinguish them from anyone else.

Certainly Stonewall are not interested in protecting the rights of people who are same sex attracted.

However Margarita, perhaps you could explain which rights are being attacked by LGB Alliance?

Re M&S and pronoun badges. I’m disappointed that they dismissed concerns women (including myself) raised about changing rooms. Someone close to me was videoed going to the toilet by a colleague putting in a secret camera in the ladies. She has no idea where those videos have been posted and has no redress and pursue of regional news sites show hidden cameras is a serious concern. The pronoun badges indicate M&S are still prioritising trans ideology over concerns a number of their customers have raised with them.

I also contacted them about those gross reviews and was ignored. It wasn’t until Baroness Nicholson got involved that they were removed.

I personally don’t want to use mixed sex changing rooms and every time I look at their underwear I’m reminded of the reviews so I’m choosing to shopelsewhere for clothes. I still buy some food with them and I’m not picketing the store, harassing staff, doing sad face interviews with the daily mail or any other tactics used to ‘cancel’ someone. But my personal expenditure with them has plummeted.

I’m surprised M&S are happy to ignore and alienate a significant portion of their main customer base but thats up to them.

To the person who reccomended bravissimo they allow men who identify as transgender to use their female changing rooms. Which was my piint on concentrating on m&s so much.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/10388647/lingerie-chain-bravissimo-now-allows-people-who-identify-as-transgender-to-try-on-bras-in-the-changing-rooms/amp/

Sorry the person who reccomended bravissimo was @VelvetChairGirl didnt mean to be rude, and also for @DifficultBloodyWoman dudnt want you to spend money with a company who supports this nonsense.

They also refer to women as cisgender.

Yes, we have had at least one thread about Bravissimo. It's not an isolated problem, by any means, but this thread and set of concerns is about M&S specifically.

[quote Ohmygodyesthatsit]To the person who reccomended bravissimo they allow men who identify as transgender to use their female changing rooms. Which was my piint on concentrating on m&s so much.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/10388647/lingerie-chain-bravissimo-now-allows-people-who-identify-as-transgender-to-try-on-bras-in-the-changing-rooms/amp/[/quote]
my experience of Bravisimo is that they wouldnt be able to do anything gross.

you dont just pick stuff up and try it on, the changing rooms are on a completely different floor, you ask to use them, they knock on the door to check on you etc.

@Ereshkigalangcleg i understand that but when pps are recommending alternatives I think its fair to point out if the alternative is ideologically no different.

@VelvetChairGirl its nit just about if people have the opportunity to do something gross its about supporting the ideology behind it.

[quote MargaritaPie]"[LGBA] are representing same sex attracted LGB, aren't they"

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people:

[/quote] Oh, not keen on her attitude there to be honest.

I am a member of LGBA and they do represent me.

I've not noticed them being anti-trans, although at the moment I cannot get hold of them at all, as they are being trolled to death.

They simply believe in same sex attraction. How is this anti-trans?

Bev is lovely, so is Alison. Very confusing to hear them described this way to be honest.

[quote MargaritaPie]"[LGBA] are representing same sex attracted LGB, aren't they"

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people:

[/quote] Erm, is this supposed to be “evidence”?

I thought it was going to be a video of someone from the LGB Alliance saying something horrifically transphobic.

Nope. Because they aren’t transphobic. They’re just pro LGB. They think the acknowledgment of material reality of people’s sex is imperative in being supportive of same sex relationships.

All this clip does is make it clear the Green Party will remain unelectable for people who don’t follow gender ideology.

Oh come on Marge You really must do better than that.

Where's your edge, your inner warrior? Come on... bring out the big guns, really show us just how transphobic LGBA is / we are.

We have waited this long, another year or so won't make much difference

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people

Women having rights opposes the rights of trans people
Safeguarding opposes the rights of trans people
Homosexuality opposes the rights of trans people

At least we're now at the point of talking openly about the rights of trans people being incompatible with the rights of other groups.

Where are the duties or obligations that go along with the rights?

I think in this example "rights" actually may actually be a typo for "privileges".

Nope - people don’t think like that these days. It’s ‘gimme now, I want’ with scant thought about earning rights, avoiding trampling on others’, and responsibilities.

@MargaritaPie

"Tunnocks are getting my support"

I emailed Tunnocks at the time to ask if they were aware who they had donated to, and this was their reply:

"Many thanks for getting in touch. As I’m sure you will understand Tunnock’s Biscuits receive hundreds of donation requests per week. Our policy is we try and give a little to a lot, and the last thing we expect, is to offend anyone. We fully appreciate your stance, and thank you for bringing the matter to our attention, and will of course look into the matter."

It seems to me this doesn't necessary mean Tunnucks are anti-trans, they donate to a wide range of orgs and probably thought LGBA was just another gay-rights org (an easy mistake to make given their name) without really knowing who they are. I hope they are aware now.

I know this is a really hard concept for you to grasp

But people can support tunnocks and be really really pleased that they aren’t anti trans

And, aaaaannnnd

Be pleased that they sent t cakes to LGBA

@Artichokeleaves

They don't exist to "help LGB people", they exist to oppose the rights of trans people

Women having rights opposes the rights of trans people
Safeguarding opposes the rights of trans people
Homosexuality opposes the rights of trans people

At least we're now at the point of talking openly about the rights of trans people being incompatible with the rights of other groups.

It's really a bit weird that they can't even see it. Even if they screw up one eye and look very, very intently.

'Being same sex attracted opposes the rights of trans people.'

I think I started the Tunnocks chat, I'm glad they support wide groups and do not discriminate.

I'm not keen to buy from companies who discriminate against women and children by reducing their rights, I will not be buying anything from M&S in the future.