How to pass as a woman

[Justme56]

www.wikihow.com/%22Pass%22-As-a-Woman

"smiling and playing with your hair are 2 common feminine gestures"

Yikes - no wonder transactivists are angry with women if this is what they're putting themselves through before they can even step out of the door each morning.

I feel so sorry for every single person taking this kind of advice as an instruction manual for social acceptance.

I know it's ridiculous 50's nonsense too, but the darker side of this is heartbreaking.

If your idea of supporting any other class of human being means me accepting my degradation, then I am always and forever on my side.

Hear, hear! Extremely well put

Fugginell.

I'm womanning all wrong! I don't play with my hair because it's always scragged back. My legs are currently covered with their winter fur. I hardly ever wear makeup and never use foundation ...

What a pile of old stereotypes.

Brilliant! That really made me chuckle

There I was, thinking that my uterus, vagina, ovaries, breasts and double ✖ chromosomes were enough. Now I have to shave too?! 😤

@MonsignorMirth

kimiko I think it's saying to be empathetic, not emphatetic. I actually don't know what the latter means

Oh clever you. I must be the only person on the whole of Mumsnet who has ever made a typo typing on a phone.

To be fair, we don't have to do any of those things to "pass" as women because we already "pass", even if we never wear heels, plunging necklines or foundation.

It's just an article about what men need to do to pretend to be a woman. A pointless exercise from my point of view, but I don't object to their hobby.

I do object to the idea that following those instructions is anything other than an elaborate pretend game, a man is still a man.

@Yamaya

What is wrong with that.

You're all being very cruel and unnecessary. Bunch of horrible playground bullies. Grow up.

According to the article women are kind compassionate and not aggressive

Please reflect in your mirror

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

I agree. Seems to be just another excuse to have a go at trans people

How?

As others have said they are taking the piss out of stereotypes

this poster seems to be suggesting that women cannot take the piss out of stereotypes for fear of someone thinking that trans people would be offended.

This seems to suggest that they think trans people are basing their transness on a collection of stereotypes.

It also seems to suggest a fundamental incompatibility between feminism - which questions gender and refuses to accede to the imposition of stereotypes - and the whole idea of 'trans', which seems to require stereotypes to be observed/adhered to in order to work at all.

This brought to mind a 1990s sitcom where one bloke had been on a date with the 'perfect woman' who 'even wore stockings'. His mates explained to him that there is only pair of stockings that women share for use on first dates and after that they switch to tights...

Trying to look at the ‘how to pass as a woman’ more sympathetically, the whole list shows the extent to which a would be trans woman might really be following an illusion and dream - ever elusive.

The state of imagined femininity must represent some sort of hope for something.
Is it to be ‘sexy’, desired, chased or subservient? Is it to be more emotional, among a nurturing friendship group? Is it to feel close to lived females in the person’s life when the males were awful? There must be lots of different reasons.

I agree the instructions are laughable when compared to reality. They read like 13 year old girls’ magazine instructions of the 1960s ( which I used to spend hours reading and love). It is true … where is Joan of Arc, Bodicea or George Eliot. But it would be interesting to understand what these men are after.

The other thing is that though these traits might be regressive stereotypes many women do actively want to conform to stereotypes too. Whether to be like an ethereal waif; or wear hair extensions, have injections to have fish like lips bug breasts and botox forehead.

The other way round - how to pass as a man might have useful tips for women at work. Margaret Thatcher famously had coaching to lower her voice. On a recent thread suggesting how to write to a company about why it is wrong to have pronouns, some suggested the original writer should have avoided any hint of emotion - the equivalent of a level voice. Angela Merkel, Nicola Sturgeon and Theresa May have short haircuts ( though not butch) and they would not have had the power they did had their hair been long in our particular societies where the leaders have been men before.

So I am suggesting people do manipulate stereotypes so as to adjust other people’s perceptions and treatment of them or to achieve certain outcomes.

We are a long way from stereotypes not affecting outcomes.

I presume trans people want to do this to the nth degree when they try to ‘pass’.

@TeamRex

To be fair, we don't have to do any of those things to "pass" as women because we already "pass", even if we never wear heels, plunging necklines or foundation.

It's just an article about what men need to do to pretend to be a woman. A pointless exercise from my point of view, but I don't object to their hobby.

I do object to the idea that following those instructions is anything other than an elaborate pretend game, a man is still a man.

I agree. It isn't saying doing those things make them a women.

It certainly isn't saying not doing them is "womaning wrong"

Reminder that men used to wear stockings. The 18th century was the best century for men's fashion in my humble opinion.

Oh fgs.

The only way to be a woman is to be biologically female.

The whole point of feminism (read the label on this forum) is that women can be biologically female and yet look any way they choose, dress how they choose, like what they choose, have the career they choose, have any sexual orientation, have children or not have children, be as masculine or as feminine as they happen to like being, and still be biologically female .

That is how women escape being objectified and oppressed by gender stereotypes.

So yes. Women are likely to find this really bloody offensive and say so when they are being mocked like this. Imagine 'how to pass as Autistic'. Or 'how to pass as Black'. Or 'how to pass as a child'. And if women saying so is 'transphobic' then again we establish: the posters claiming this are saying in fact then that they believe women's rights and freedoms are incompatible with the political movement they support.

On a feminism and women's rights forum.

Well said Artichokeleaves.

This is all the problem of confusing sex with gender. Gender is a social construct. So the poor transwomen following this Northern European gender guideline are just pursuing a 1950s idea of women which will make them out of place with the majority of women and nudge them into the transvestite area of big hair, eyelash extensions, long nails, slinky dresses and high heels.

@Artichokeleaves

Oh fgs.

The only way to be a woman is to be biologically female.

The whole point of feminism (read the label on this forum) is that women can be biologically female and yet look any way they choose, dress how they choose, like what they choose, have the career they choose, have any sexual orientation, have children or not have children, be as masculine or as feminine as they happen to like being, and still be biologically female .

That is how women escape being objectified and oppressed by gender stereotypes.

So yes. Women are likely to find this really bloody offensive and say so when they are being mocked like this. Imagine 'how to pass as Autistic'. Or 'how to pass as Black'. Or 'how to pass as a child'. And if women saying so is 'transphobic' then again we establish: the posters claiming this are saying in fact then that they believe women's rights and freedoms are incompatible with the political movement they support.

On a feminism and women's rights forum.

This.

And there is a 'How to pass as a minor' heading in the same list as the woman one we've been looking at.

spend time around ladies

😳

where are all the ladies? I don't know any

Zing

@QueenSue

🤣
Exactly!
I knew someone will get them laydees!

the poor transwomen following this Northern European gender guideline are just pursuing a 1950s idea of women which will make them out of place with the majority of women and nudge them into the transvestite area

Yes, exactly - this is guidance for conspicuously passing oneself off as someone who has no idea what being a woman means.

At best it's misleading, at worst it's horrifically cruel to all those people being sold the fantasy that dressing like a woman will solve their inner turmoil.

I'm writing a tutorial "How to pass out as woman":

step 1: be born a woman
step 2: pick a method of losing consciousness: get drunk, faint, have extreme fatigue etc

the end

@emulsioned

How to pass as a woman using my method:

1. Aged 18, actively study Kurt Cobain's dress sense. Copy.
2. Continue for 25 years whilst still being discriminated against and modifying your behaviour on the basis of your biological sex.
3. Have minor womaning crisis due to failure to deal with grey hair, nails, skirts, skin, make up, high heels and uncomfortable (=women's) clothes in order to meet social expectations
4. Think fuck it and continue to dress like Kurt Cobain with additional cagoules.

Still a woman.

And mine too. Gasp, that makes 3 of us just on this thread - maybe we're something different, something ... speshul ... stunning and brave even!!!

@drum123

'When you are walking, walk with one leg in front of the other...' umm, how else does anyone walk? Legs side by side, flat on the floor, above your head?

Well I walk sideways on the days I'm identifying as a crab.

If you live in Stepford maybe