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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to pass as a woman

304 replies

Justme56 · 06/11/2021 10:26

www.wikihow.com/%22Pass%22-As-a-Woman

"smiling and playing with your hair are 2 common feminine gestures"

Grin
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
yourhairiswinterfire · 06/11/2021 13:34

When you are walking, walk with one leg in front of the other

Grin

Were they all walking around supermarkets, the office, taking their dogs for walks etc like MC fucking Hammer before reading this article or something? Confused

NotAnotherPylon · 06/11/2021 13:35

Surely if TWAW - I mean, really ARE - then they don't need this advice.

BloodinGutters · 06/11/2021 13:37

@wincarwoo

Nobody passes for a woman anyway. All the physical features give it away. Jaw, hands, legs, chest, erm entire body really.

If you think you do it doesn't mean that everybody hasn't noticed.

I think some (minority) must pass.

The threads about lesbians raped by tw who don’t disclose their penis until the last minute speak to that. I believe them completely.

I think it’s a minority though and I think that when women are left to trust their instincts, rather than be gas lit about what a woman is, we spot them quicker. So us ‘oldies’-as we do often are accused of my tra’s here- can spot it much quicker.

BloodinGutters · 06/11/2021 13:42

Oh and to add- those tw with a penis who pass until naked- are the ones who then rape the women in the first hand experiences given in the bbc article, and on threads here/Twitter.

So, in those cases, the ‘why’ anyone wants to pass appears to only be rapey.

PlanktonsComputerWife · 06/11/2021 13:45

@QueenSue

I wish the "Be sensitive" part included be sensitive to other's boundaries and don't invade women's personal space. Don't randomly touch us.
Right. I have a local friend, a wonderful woman, who just this week got a job after nearly a decade out of work- she had believed herself unemployable. I welled up I was so happy for her, and she spontaneously gave me a hug. I realised that in five years of knowing each other, this was actually the first physical contact we'd had. This is even though we chat all the time, have exchanged Christmas gifts and she's someone I'd have no hesitation with entrusting with my child.

Meanwhile half my male colleagues, male neighbour, even my child's PE teacher felt it OK to try to put their hand on my arm or back or otherwise touch me during casual conversation.

andyoldlabour · 06/11/2021 13:46

Yamaya

"What is wrong with that.
You're all being very cruel and unnecessary. Bunch of horrible playground bullies. Grow up"

I would love to know how it is bullying, I thought there had to be a person who was being bullied. All I can see are comments aimed at a clearly ridiculous piece, containing the most outrageous gender stereotypes you could imagine.

OldCrone · 06/11/2021 13:49

@BloodinGutters

Oh and to add- those tw with a penis who pass until naked- are the ones who then rape the women in the first hand experiences given in the bbc article, and on threads here/Twitter.

So, in those cases, the ‘why’ anyone wants to pass appears to only be rapey.

I don't think there was any mention of transwomen who pass until naked in the BBC article. The women coerced into sex were fully aware that the transwomen were transwomen, not women, but were told that it would be transphobic to reject them just because they were male.

There was a hypothetical scenario, but no indication that this had actually taken place: "There's a common argument that they try and use that goes 'What if you met a woman in a bar and she's really beautiful and you got on really well and you went home and you discovered that she has a penis? Would you just not be interested?'"

oneglassandpuzzled · 06/11/2021 13:55

Other tips would include being aware that any unpleasant cleaning up of other people’s bodily fluids should be embraced—most women seem to be responsible for pets, children and elderly parents.

Also, take a 25% pay cut to really get into the vibe.

KimikosNightmare · 06/11/2021 14:05

I think there's a bit of over- egging on both sides here. One the one hand there's the usual highly predictable list of despised items of femininity which posters fall over themselves in the rush to say they don't do. On the other the hyperbolic accusations of bullying.

But the article is not saying doing the things listed makes a person a woman. It is saying these are things some (many?) women do and some of which are more likely to be done by women than men- as a quick trip to Style and Beauty will show. Doing these things might give a trans woman a better chance of passing socially as female. (Apparently of course trans women never pass or they pass so well that they can get to the point of physical, naked intimacy)

One of the items is be more emphatetic. You, general you, bang on about female socialisation, so according to your own beliefs the idea of women being more empathetic is a bit more than a lazy stereotype. And why complain about an instruction to a trans woman to be more emphatetic?

But what would I know? I wear make-up, do play with my hair and have been accused of being a man because of how I "type on the Internet" (and the comments about physical typing are just silly- it obviously meant "writing")

BloodinGutters · 06/11/2021 14:12

@OldCrone maybe it’s just the threads I’ve read here or Twitter then. But I’ve definitely came across it.

By far the minority. But I do think some do pass, at least with some women they pass.

But I’d be questioning why they want to pass in those cases. It’s never the sweet tw minding their own business trope, it’s a tw who knows a lesbian won’t be attracted to them once they know they are male. It’s inherently insidious.

There’s a couple of cases I can think of that were reported in MSM in some way that involved young women sexually assaulted by deception. Because the person they believed to be their boyfriend was actually female and the ‘sex’ they had was with a dildo or similar. One case the female victim ended up in a psychiatric hospital.

I don’t think adult women would have been fooled, but I don’t think that changes that it’s sexual assault by deception.

It may only be a tiny minority of either sex that ‘passes’ and they may only pass with certain, maybe more vulnerable or naive victims, but I think in some cases it’s true. But it begs the question about why they’d want to pass under intimate circumstances, and the only answer is predatory ones.

ArabellaScott · 06/11/2021 14:12

So if women point out offensive, sexist, regressive stereotypes that reduce us to a parody or caricature of 'femininity', we are being 'bullies'.

Got it.

Gosh, how are feminists going to point out sexism? Won't you all come and tell us how to do it, please? TIA

ArabellaScott · 06/11/2021 14:15

'One of the easiest ways to understand feminine traits is to spend time around ladies. Drum up your female friends and set up a book club, wine night, or other weekly time to hang out.'

OH ARE TTHERE ANY LADIEEZ ON THIS THREAD CAN WE HANG OUT AND LET ME WINE AND BOOK YOU PLZ THANKS

'Empathize with others and be sensitive to those around you'.

screws up eyes really hard and tries to look stroky

Okay, so not like that, I see.

'Women aren’t known for their aggression, so try to be accepting and assertive in a gentle way.'

I am assertively gentling at you, ladypeople! Allow me to tinkly laught at your funnies! So accpeting much gentle. SmileBlush

OKAY HOW DID I DO SCORES PLEASE

SpudleyLass · 06/11/2021 14:18

''They're responding to the gendered world like non trans people do''

No, they're not. I respond, quite naturally, by NOT adopting gendered traits. I rarely ever wear make up or moisturise. I haven't twirled my hair since childhood and quite frankly, not being assertive? Being not assertive never got me anywhere. I remember being on the school playground and being told to join the boys team because I wasn't feminine enough for some of the girls.

I'm still a woman.

You're supposed to smash the gender stereotypes, not embrace them.

This article is sexist and I'm allowed to say so.

MonsignorMirth · 06/11/2021 14:19

kimiko I think it's saying to be empathetic, not emphatetic. I actually don't know what the latter means Blush

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 06/11/2021 14:22

OldCrone

It does happen. Quite recently, a male successfully deceived a woman. They tried to prosecute him for rape, but he was acquitted after the prosecution brought up the victim's sexual history. Like many same-sex attracted women, she had previously had sex with a man, and they argued in court that this meant she was bisexual really, and so the penis shouldn't have been a problem. Apparently, if a woman has previously consented to a penis it means she consents to all penises forever, even if that previous encounter was how she worked out that she was only attracted to women.

www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3151721/hong-kong-man-accused-concealing-his-sex-rape-woman

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 06/11/2021 14:24

And why complain about an instruction to a trans woman to be more empathetic?

Transwomen who are genuinely empathetic to women will understand that there are times when single sex spaces matter and biology matters, and will respect both.

chesirecat99 · 06/11/2021 14:31

@drum123

'When you are walking, walk with one leg in front of the other...' umm, how else does anyone walk? Legs side by side, flat on the floor, above your head?
They mean walk so your feet are exactly in front of each other rather than with space between your feet/legs so it makes your hips swing and your arse wiggle for the delectation and pleasure of men [green]
BloodinGutters · 06/11/2021 14:37

There’s a particular tw actor who I didn’t initially realise was trans. Playing a female character, physically appears to pass (although in hindsight there’s something about the jaw that would be more obvious a tell in rl). I wasn’t exactly paying attention when watching and it didn’t quite click initially. But there was something that stood out as ‘not right’ (not a judgment, just can’t think of a better phrase) especially about their voice. It wasn’t as deep as many males, but didn’t sound female, which is how it clicked (as opposed to say Taylor Momsen’s deep but yet very obviously female voice).

I’d imagine if younger women have grown up being told this person is a woman, about a variety of examples not just this one actor, it must be harder for our natural ‘that’s a male’ instincts to kick in.

It creates confusion and yet we are taught to over ride that confusion. It’s partly where the safeguarding risk of teaching children to ignore material reality comes in.

So I think for younger women this is likely harder, not for all younger women of course, but that with that demographic especially a small minority of tw or tm may well pass until getting intimate.

But it’s still the question of why would a person want to pass until the very last minute comes up (ignore the pun). Because if they pass until they don’t and the woman admits they knew all along and didn’t mind/were just being polite, then I don’t think that would end up well for her. Or the young woman is shocked and terrified.

I can’t see how there could ever be a reason for passing until the moment of intimacy that isn’t solely intentionally predatory. Trying to pass up until that point is itself a form of sexual violence.

NecessaryScene · 06/11/2021 14:37

'One of the easiest ways to understand feminine traits is to spend time around ladies. Drum up your female friends and set up a book club, wine night, or other weekly time to hang out.'

As illustrated in practice here.

How to pass as a woman
DoesHePlayTheFiddle · 06/11/2021 14:44

@drum123

Well now, the FTM one is just as reductive. 'Not wearing make up automatically makes you look more masculine.' Really? Doesn't it just make you look, well, not made up?
Oh, goodness. All those men giving me the eye over the years must have been gay and thinking I was a man.
Beckert · 06/11/2021 14:46

As illustrated in practice here.

Great. Join a knitting circle. Drive the males out of it. Lovely.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 06/11/2021 14:47

I agree. Seems to be just another excuse to have a go at trans people

How?

As others have said they are taking the piss out of stereotypes

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 06/11/2021 14:48

I agree with porfre

Alwayswonderedwhy · 06/11/2021 14:51

It has to be a piss take 🤣

Beckert · 06/11/2021 14:55

I agree. Seems to be just another excuse to have a go at trans people

Dont you think women have the right to be upset that womanhood is being reduced to a mass of stereotypes, put in a quick guide, for those born male to follow? Or do you think they should just stay silent, as per the guidelines, including empathy. I can see why women would feel upset about that. Maybe it just goes to show that women aren't just a set of stereotypes after all. Just a thought. After all. I have no skin in the game.

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