"Ace week" in girl guiding.

[WarriorN]

What fresh hell....

Thankfully a number of posters really not impressed. Worrying number think it's entirely appropriate

https://www.facebook.com/girlguidinguk/photos/a.398392309681/10158689026444682/?type=3

But it was worth reading it to find this excellent analysis of "Ace" identity and issues around it.

bryndisb.substack.com/p/asexuality-queering-the-mundane

Sorry a bit garbled as rushing

@thevassal

I agree with *@vinsurin* that a lot of the posts on this thread are very offensive. Replace asexual with gay,or sexually attracted to a different race, and posts suggesting being asexual stops you from being physically healthy or is only because you were traumatised as a child read disgustingly.

I usually agree with lots of the threads on this board and would agree with this one if it was aimed at rainbows or brownies - but guides are for girls aged 10-14, many of whom will be sexually active (if not having full sex) and experiencing sexual or romantic feelings. In which case I don't think it's inappropriate for them to learn about asexuality in the same way it wouldn't be appropriate for them to learn about being gay, bisexuality or lesbian. Of course it is bizarre for a 6 year old to label themselves as asexual but I think it might actually be useful for a 13 or 14 year old who is wondering why she isn't experiencing the same crushes and feelings as her friends and wondering if there is something wrong with her (although according to posters on this board there is!)

As a pp pointed out, we live in an overwhelmingly sexualised world, which can be particularly intimidating for girls. If they are not sure about who they like, saying they think they are asexual for a few years gives them an 'out' from otherwise constant discussion of which you fancy, what you've done with them etc I remember from my own teen years while they figure it out- does it matter? It might actually be a good thing for girls who feel a bit overwhelmed with it all. Unlike being trans nobody is prescribing blockers or surgery to kids who say they are asexual, so what harm is it causing?

'Many 10 to 14 year olds are sexually active'? And this is ok?

I can’t imagine there are ANY parents who send their daughters to GG would be remotely happy with this sexualised BS being bandied about.

The girls who go should be playing rounders /putting up tents / having fun. They’re children.

If my teenage daughter, for whatever reason, doesn't feel any flickering of interest in either sex, I do not want any links she follows from Girl Guides to encourage her that she should still value herself according to how appealing she is to the male gaze.

Not garbled, and covers areas for adults to discuss. And yes, Kingsley...

Re the photo of lingerie, also, girls are very affected by social media influences.

Is also worry that therein lays confusion over sex too, "I don't like the lingerie and showing my curves, perhaps I'm trans?" Which is exactly how a teen has put it to my teaching friend in a middle school (the gg age range.)

There's also issues around the impact of abuse and trauma leading to not wanting physical relationships. This is out of Gg's depth.

I'm sure lots of girls go to Girl Guides to get away from talking about feckin sex all the time! They are bombarded with it at the moment it seems.

Who you are attracted to, how you identify sexually, what label you attach to yourself. What about girls who just want to get away from all that?

I remember being at an all girls school and even in the 90s, sex was everywhere. Who was doing it with who, who was a lesbian or bi, who had done what and with who. I was quite glad to get away from it at things like Guides and other hobbies.

And it seems like it's even worse these days.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

If my teenage daughter, for whatever reason, doesn't feel any flickering of interest in either sex, I do not want any links she follows from Girl Guides to encourage her that she should still value herself according to how appealing she is to the male gaze.

Quite. Is there nothing that these bloody organisations and people won't do to sexualise girls?

Why would a child saying that they feel they might be asexual a safeguarding issue?
@vinsurvin any form of sexual awareness at too young an age should be considered a red flag. If you hear a kid say something you wouldn't expect a kid to know, you ask "how did they know that word?" It has happened that a ten year old has declared to a class that they were asexual, the teacher held them back afterwards and discovered that they were the victim in a CSE ring.

Many 10-14 year olds are sexually active?! They are victims of CSA if any other person is involved, then!

Is this sort of sexualised theme a focus in Scouting, too?

@NewlyGranny

Is this sort of sexualised theme a focus in Scouting, too?

Yes, are they being told that asexuality is a sexual orientation, but they can still have sex even though they don't feel any desire, and look at these provocative pictures of asexual boys showing their bodies in a sexy way?

I'm positive it's the same for boy scouts. It must be, right?

Otherwise this would all be massively sexist

Isn't telling a girl that she can still have sex even if she doesn't have any sexual desire a bit....rapey?

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

Isn't telling a girl that she can still have sex even if she doesn't have any sexual desire a bit....rapey?

I would say so...

@DdraigGoch

Why would a child saying that they feel they might be asexual a safeguarding issue? *@vinsurvin* any form of sexual awareness at too young an age should be considered a red flag. If you hear a kid say something you wouldn't expect a kid to know, you ask "how did they know that word?" It has happened that a ten year old has declared to a class that they were asexual, the teacher held them back afterwards and discovered that they were the victim in a CSE ring.

For a child to know they're asexual there needs to have been conversation about what being sexual is and I'd be very surprised if it didn't include a range of other sexualities other than LGB. Polyamarous, demisexual, aromantic etc.

@RepentMotherfucker

I'm positive it's the same for boy scouts. It must be, right?

Otherwise this would all be massively sexist

According to twitter they observed "non binary day." Not much else other than a lot of actually very interesting stuff to do with the out doors, bear grylls and a baby beaver.

[quote GuidingSpirit]@KatieAlcock a one second click on the name of the poster on that facebook thread calling themselves Little Owl shows that they have been married since 2012 and so clearly not a young leader. 🙄

You have your agenda (which you push all over any MN thread relating to Girlguiding) but you undermine yourself when you make such untrue statements.

In any case, young leaders have to do safe space level 1 and 2, so the second sentence in your post is also not accurate.[/quote]
Well, in that case she's an adult who should know EVEN BETTER not to publicise her sexuality where her Brownies can see it.

my FB says I'm married.
To my husband.
(I'm straight.)
Somebody mentioning they're gay, bi, pan or ace, is just doing the same surely.
Or should they just keep quiet and not mention it on there.

I'm somewhat unimpressed by the woes of the asexuals, tbh. I accept that there are a minority of people who don't experience any sexual feelings. I don't think asexuals suffer any greater oppression in a sex-satured culture than heterosexuals, homosexuals or bisexuals. We all face assumptions and pressure to pair off romantically, and there's no guarantee of pairing off happening if you're het of LGB anyway.

So the whole "I'm asexual, so it's bad form to ask if I've got or want a partner" thing almost suggests it's fine to badger het or LGB people about that. What occurs to me is that if you're asexual and don't have a partner, the most irksome thing about that question is just people asking. If you're het or LGB and people ask, they're also possibly reminding you that you're lonely and wanting a relationship. So, to be perfectly honest, in a highly sexualized society, where even 'Asexual activists' post pics of themselves and boast about how 'hot' they are, asexuals are probably relatively privileged.

Mind your own blimmin' business should really be the next 'awareness movement'.

my FB says I'm married.
To my husband.
(I'm straight.)
Somebody mentioning they're gay, bi, pan or ace, is just doing the same surely.

No, not really. Saying you are married to a man doesn't equal saying you are straight. You could be "bi, pan or ace" after all.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

my FB says I'm married. To my husband. (I'm straight.) Somebody mentioning they're gay, bi, pan or ace, is just doing the same surely. Or should they just keep quiet and not mention it on there.

Whataboutery...

How is it whataboutery when it's about the same topic?
Or is that only OK for some people to do, if you don't present as straight you should hide it?
As that's how Katies post came across and that's the one I was commenting in relation to.
Oh and yes, I could be bi, pan or ace, but I'd still be presenting as straight and that seemingly is OK and nobody has a problem with that on social media.

If you actually bothered to read the thread you'd know what the actual issue is, and then know why your post is whataboutery

@PumpkinGin

How about all random adults stay out of initiating this (any sexuality related) discussion with other people’s children?

How about only PHSE in schools teach this, under strictly supervised conditions and subject to safeguarding?

This

Nobody has mentioned the boundaries of guide leaders being violated. As with their queer theory UMA, I didn't sign up for having to teach or even discuss this sort of thing as a leader. I'm not qualified to pontificate on other people's sexualities or gender identities. It's one thing if topics better suited to sex ed just happen to come up in the course of a wider conversation, quite another if GGUK is actively promoting it as something that they are supporting, and by extension, individual unit leaders should be/are seen to be supporting. I have been hanging in there - unhappily - as a leader, hoping things get better, but I don't think I can carry on anymore. There are very few women willing to volunteer as leaders, ime, the most we've able to get is a unit helper who will come in every fortnight, and even then, they don't sign up for all the drudge work, the sesson prep and reams of paperwork. Lots of older leaders in my area quit during covid, and have not been replaced. What is GGUK trying to achieve? We are not PSHE trained, we are not counsellors, we are not gender theory experts. Exactly who will be the new people setting up units? Let me guess.