"Ace week" in girl guiding.

[WarriorN]

What fresh hell....

Thankfully a number of posters really not impressed. Worrying number think it's entirely appropriate

https://www.facebook.com/girlguidinguk/photos/a.398392309681/10158689026444682/?type=3

But it was worth reading it to find this excellent analysis of "Ace" identity and issues around it.

bryndisb.substack.com/p/asexuality-queering-the-mundane

@2fallsfromSSA

I know some people have posted our article in their guiding groups and there has been no response. People just do not want to see it. Shocking really

There is a GG leaders group on MN. I posted the article there. Will see if anyone there wishes to engage.

Not sure it's a case of not wanting to see it, but not being able to say anything on a GG forum without being grassed up and hounded out in the way Katie and Helen were. I don't do any GG social media, but my fellow leader does, and says she's seen a lot of wtf comments about ACE week.

Never seen a GG leaders group on MN! Where on the site are they, I've looked but can't see them?

They are in Extracurricular.

@Sittinginthesand

IMO the rebranding of asexuality as ‘ace’ is a bit of a red flag in itself, I’m not sure I can put my finger on why though. I also seem to remember an ages old interview with Rolf Harris talking about not really having sexual feelings.

I know what you mean. On the topic of ummm people like Rolf Harris, it can be true that sexual feelings are not important. Because they get their kicks from the hurt they cause and the life ruined rather than from a sexual thrill. And of course some people like the sexual thrill as well as causing hurt and ruining lives. From a survivor of such a person.

Because they get their kicks from the hurt they cause and the life ruined rather than from a sexual thrill.

And as we know supposedly straight men can rape gay (or straight) men. I guess I've always thought they were closeted gay men but they could well just be straight and cruel.

Barf

I saw this tweet and was disturbed and horrified that Girl Guiding thought this was in any way appropriate for a children’s organisation.

My daughter was a Brownie and had a very positive experience - and the reason I was keen for her to take part was because the group was a safe space that allowed the girls to do age-appropriate activities without any pressures.

To me this Tweet really rang alarm bells. What does a Guide leaders sexuality have to do with anything? Why should this be discussed with children?

It’s a shame as Brownies and Guides should be a fantastic space for children and young women, but I would be concerned about what is being discussed in the groups. To be honest I haven’t rushed to sign my youngest child up.

Ah, maybe I can identify as a girl and ace for a week, get some nice attention, could use it at the moment.

It's recruitment. It's recruitment to gender identity. simple. describe 99% of children broadly, tell them it's 'their gender identity', show a pretty flag .... and so it begins

@vinsurvin

“@MrsOvertonsWindow I'm sorry to break it to you, but children do have sexual relationships. Children are increasingly being sexualised from a very young age. Children have 'boyfriends' and 'girlfriends' at primary school. It's an unfortunate truth that children are having sex or experimenting with sexual touching while still at primary school. You might not like it, but it is the reality and will continue to be so - the average age of puberty is getting younger and younger in Western society which means sexual feelings are kicking in younger and younger. “

Please if you have a link to that information would you post it?

If that is true, then those are abused children one way or another who have been sexualised by someone, or seeing pornography.

A 6 year old who has not been abused in this way, and who does not feel sexual attraction, does not have a ‘sexual’ orientation called ace.

I just don't know why there isn't one f*%$ing place where kids can go to learn skills and have some fun without being subjected to being hassled about their various identities.

It must be bloody exhausting.

No wonder they are all so anxious and depressed. They need to go out in the woods and light fires, or learn to sew, or run a community program to get rid of littler. Not get farther and farther into their own heads.

@LobsterNapkin

I just don't know why there isn't one f*%$ing place where kids can go to learn skills and have some fun without being subjected to being hassled about their various identities.

It must be bloody exhausting.

No wonder they are all so anxious and depressed. They need to go out in the woods and light fires, or learn to sew, or run a community program to get rid of littler. Not get farther and farther into their own heads.

Totally!

If that is true, then those are abused children one way or another who have been sexualised by someone, or seeing pornography. A 6 year old who has not been abused in this way, and who does not feel sexual attraction, does not have a ‘sexual’ orientation called ace.

I totally agree - it’s not common for primary school age children to be engaging in sexual activity and there would be serious concerns if they were. They may have ‘boyfriends’ or ‘girlfriends’, but this is very different from actually having sex!! The NSPCC PANTS guidance is helpful for this age group.

No wonder they are all so anxious and depressed. They need to go out in the woods and light fires, or learn to sew, or run a community program to get rid of littler. Not get farther and farther into their own heads

Oh god yes.

The worst thing is that they don't actually care. This is all just creating a problem so they can flog GG some training to solve it.

@LobsterNapkin

I just don't know why there isn't one f*%$ing place where kids can go to learn skills and have some fun without being subjected to being hassled about their various identities.

It must be bloody exhausting.

No wonder they are all so anxious and depressed. They need to go out in the woods and light fires, or learn to sew, or run a community program to get rid of littler. Not get farther and farther into their own heads.

Bloody well said.

I said similar to this on the AIBU thread and got told to fuck off! Although it seemed there were some poster on there who weren't exactly acting in good faith.

I find this really sinister. Some children are sexualised early. This is a massive societal problem but these children need targeted help.

The solution isn’t to bombard all children with information about sex at every opportunity.

@NewlyGranny

I guess the flag could be vanilla stripes on a vanilla background? I love vanilla - it is a highly prized, fragrant spice with a distinctive flavour, not an absence of anything interesting.

I hate the term vanilla when talking about sex. Its so unhelpful. I guess this is why asexuality and "demi sexuality" are now seen as "queer identities" when really it covers more people that you'd expect.

@2fallsfromSSA

I’m going to be printing off your gg letter to take to school. Ty

Oh good god! My daughter started Rainbows this week! She loved it.

Obviously no problems for now (cannot imagine the leaders of my daughter’s group having any truck with bringing adult sexuality to a group of five year olds) but will be keeping an eye on developments in the wider guiding community.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Urgh,.I've said many times that we need ti start normalising not knowing and not caring about romantic attachments. But somehow this in itself has been turned into a sexuality and something to focus on as opposed to being a place that girls can get away from being sexualised and being the.object of someone's affection or not or defining the relationships they are in.

Wht are adults so invested in the sexualities of children fgs

Can't they just learn how to build fires and fix a car or whatever.

This!!!!! Thank you.

‘ACE’ is such a cutsy term that feels like it has childish appeal. Which is really gross once anyone looks into the definitions for 2 mins.

There is absolutely no need to be discussing this with 14 year old and younger past a 'it is normal to also not know as a person your age'.

This is adults putting their needs ahead of a child's.

When I was 14, people were definitely dating and one girl had a baby at 15, would you have told them that their sexuality might change?

A child who had a baby would definitely be investigated for sexual abuse.

You seem to misunderstand between teenagers exploring their sexuality in a normal way and adults overstepping boundaries.

A couple of girl guides discussing crushes, feelings boys and girls before lights out together. Normal.

A leader joining in that conversation. Red flag.

The people who work with children should be able to tell the difference between adults and children.

By the way, I was asked in my girlguiding leader vetting what I'd do if asked about my boyfriend.

In the early noughties the official answer was it doesn't really need to be discussed. If a child asks, tell them it's not appropriate and move on.
I certainly would have failed the vetting process then by rambling on about being a demi aromatic.
And even then the safeguarding was less robust than in education.

Adults should leave their sex life at home when working with children. Quite frankly it gives children the ick.
This probably all stems from guide leaders trying to be cool.
Adults with responsibility are not supposed to be cool. You don't tell children how you used to shoplift Pokémon cards, go out and get drunk or sleep with lots of people.
Save that stuff for adult friends.

@slashlover

There is absolutely no need to be discussing this with 14 year old and younger past a 'it is normal to also not know as a person your age'.

This is adults putting their needs ahead of a child's.

When I was 14, people were definitely dating and one girl had a baby at 15, would you have told them that their sexuality might change?

Why not? Statistically most people will end up being heterosexual in any case, but lots of people have changes in how they experience their sexuality after their teen years.

Slashlover you failed to explain this on the thread in AIBU.

You say asexuality is just another sexuality like gay, straight or bisexual. Apparently kids can be told “some people like boys, some people like girls, some people like both, and some people like neither. All of these options are fine.”

But prepubertal children not liking anyone is a normal stage of development. It’s not a sign of anything, particularly not a made up sexuality like asexuality. So if you tell children that not liking anyone is their sexuality, you are sexualising normal behaviour. This is not appropriate.

And if a young child says to you “I don’t like anyone, does that mean I’m asexual?” how are you answering that question appropriately?

It’s easy with gay, straight or bisexual. You can say to a child “when you’re older you’ll like boys/men, girls/women or both.” But with your muddled definition of asexuality how can you explain that to a child?

“I don’t like anyone now, am I asexual?”

“When you’re older, you won’t like anyone.”

“But I don’t like anyone now. Isn’t that the same?”

“No, it’s different because _”

How? How are you filling in that blank in an age appropriate way? How are explaining the muddle that is being asexual but still enjoying sex and still having partners?

So if you tell children that not liking anyone is their sexuality, you are sexualising normal behaviour. This is not appropriate.

This. It's really not complicated.

This policy of the girl guides is getting splashed (negatively) everywhere now, including MSM.

Those who are still trying to defend it might want to reflect on why they are out of step with almost everyone else who thinks it's wildly inappropriate.

Of course, there will be some people who are delighted that children are being subjected to talks about sexuality. But there will be a whole bunch of other people who are just uninformed, and think it's 'cool'.

It's not. You're not.