"Ace week" in girl guiding.

[WarriorN]

What fresh hell....

Thankfully a number of posters really not impressed. Worrying number think it's entirely appropriate

https://www.facebook.com/girlguidinguk/photos/a.398392309681/10158689026444682/?type=3

But it was worth reading it to find this excellent analysis of "Ace" identity and issues around it.

bryndisb.substack.com/p/asexuality-queering-the-mundane

But they won't know that until they talk to someone will they?

If they talk to someone , process the abuse, and gain agents the maturity maturity comes with it and still feel that way then they can safely say its them ajd how they feel.

But if you give the kids a label for something that explains perfectly normal.and valid feelings fir what they have been through they might never find out.

If they are asexual then talking to someone about what's happened to them won't hurt will it .

I suppose the point is you've told her some men go out with and marry men, some women go out with and marry women, she will be surrounded with evidence that the majority of adult people "go out with and marry" people of the opposite sex, so telling her some people aren't interested at all is hardly difficult.

I understand your point, but then there are lots of people who never get married, never date etc and there could be lots of reasons for that, not just that they are asexual. What is it that you would be telling a prepubscent child that asexual people 'are not interested in'?

I guess I'm just wondering why it's necessary to tell kids about an absence of sexual feelings, while they are still too young to really know what sexual feelings are anyway?

If I am being absolutely honest here, I do also feel like there is some appropriation going on as well. Gay people in the past were massively discriminated against for their sexuality, they were (and still are in some countries) murdered, they were discriminated against at work, they went to prison for being gay. In what way have asexual people suffered anything like that?

We probably all know asexual people in real life and just haven't given it that much thought?

Surely asexuality is actually a lack of orientation?

And how can it be catagorised as a definitive thing in itself when not feeling sexual desire can be caused by a great many things (stress, illness, meds etc.)

People don't turn lesbian when they get stressed or take anti-depressants so it's not the same thing really, is it.

I dislike the tendency to analyse and label every single point on the bell curve and put everyone in a box as though that trait makes up their whole identity. We don't all need to know what anyone else wants to do or not do to get their rocks off, as long as those people are of age.

Not everywhere needs to be a safe space to explore one's identity.

Totally agree with this, @Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet.

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

I suppose the point is you've told her some men go out with and marry men, some women go out with and marry women, she will be surrounded with evidence that the majority of adult people "go out with and marry" people of the opposite sex, so telling her some people aren't interested at all is hardly difficult.

I understand your point, but then there are lots of people who never get married, never date etc and there could be lots of reasons for that, not just that they are asexual. What is it that you would be telling a prepubscent child that asexual people 'are not interested in'?

I guess I'm just wondering why it's necessary to tell kids about an absence of sexual feelings, while they are still too young to really know what sexual feelings are anyway?

If I am being absolutely honest here, I do also feel like there is some appropriation going on as well. Gay people in the past were massively discriminated against for their sexuality, they were (and still are in some countries) murdered, they were discriminated against at work, they went to prison for being gay. In what way have asexual people suffered anything like that?

We probably all know asexual people in real life and just haven't given it that much thought?

Take a look at this thread.

People have made jokes about asexual underwear.

People have claimed that asexual people don't exist.

People have claimed that asexual people are mentally ill.

People have claimed that asexual people have all experienced sexual trauma.

People have claimed that asexual people are repressed homosexuals.

People have said that asexuality is just an attempt for people to put a label on themselves.

In short, this entire thread seeks to undermine, trivialise, mock and erase a sexual orientation.

We live in a world where sex is a major cultural currency. It's expected that people will want to have sex and you're considered to be weird/sad/abnormal/lacking/traumatised etc in some way if you don't. To be asexual is to have something 'wrong' with you.

Try living in a world where everyone is doing something you don't enjoy and don't understand. And where you are constantly judged and belittled for not enjoying it and not understanding it. Feeling like you're constantly on the outside, looking in.

Look, I'd love to have sexual feelings. I'd love to be able to enjoy sex. I'd love to be able to know why everyone else seems to find it so fantastic. I can't relate to what for a lot of people is a huge part of their lives. Can you really not imagine how hard that might be?

@doublemonkey

Surely asexuality is actually a lack of orientation?

And how can it be catagorised as a definitive thing in itself when not feeling sexual desire can be caused by a great many things (stress, illness, meds etc.)

People don't turn lesbian when they get stressed or take anti-depressants so it's not the same thing really, is it.

Not having sexual desire can be a perfectly normal thing to experience for lots of reasons and for varying periods of time.

@Jarnsaxa

vinsurvin Asexual is not a sexuality. If anything it's a lack of sexuality. Whether caused by physical issues, medical, trauma or innate. Asexuality is the ABSENCE of sexuality. It needs no more discussion than an absence of interest in anything else needs.

Still. I suppose adults who declare themselves' asexual'(and they are who they say they are right?), are likely to be seen by others as harmless to children, like celibate priests or Michael Jackson.

And then you go framing primary school aged children calling each other boyfriend or girlfriend. And holding hands, kissing, playing mummies and daddies, as children always have, as 'sexual activity'.

As if it's exactly the same as adult sexuality and it just a perfectlynormal stage of development.

Tell me. Is the 'Ace' flag a big red one?
And do you consider yourself non-cis?

Asexuality is an orientation. Just like any other.

Being asexual does not make you a paedophile. What an awful thing to say.

I have nowhere said that children's sexual feelings are the same as adult's. However, children developing sexual feelings as they go through puberty is a perfectly normal stage of development. I don't understand why that would be a troublesome thing to say. This very Victorian attitude that children should be pure and innocent until the age of 16 is ridiculous. Children go through puberty from the age of around 9 and with that will come - perfectly naturally - sexual feelings.

The bigotry on this thread is so sad to read.

Look, I'd love to have sexual feelings. I'd love to be able to enjoy sex. I'd love to be able to know why everyone else seems to find it so fantastic. I can't relate to what for a lot of people is a huge part of their lives. Can you really not imagine how hard that might be?

Im.sorry life is so hard fir you. But to object the idea that lack of feelings on children could be a result if trauma whilst talking about sexual activities on.primary school is extremely worrying. These kids kids not exist to make u feel.better. we shouldn't ignore what they are going through because adults feel it invalidates their sexuality

@Whatwouldscullydo

Look, I'd love to have sexual feelings. I'd love to be able to enjoy sex. I'd love to be able to know why everyone else seems to find it so fantastic. I can't relate to what for a lot of people is a huge part of their lives. Can you really not imagine how hard that might be?

Im.sorry life is so hard fir you. But to object the idea that lack of feelings on children could be a result if trauma whilst talking about sexual activities on.primary school is extremely worrying. These kids kids not exist to make u feel.better. we shouldn't ignore what they are going through because adults feel it invalidates their sexuality

I have literally no idea what you are on about, I'm afraid.

People have made jokes about asexual underwear. 😂😂

Jesus, can you not hear yourself? Please explain how that underwear was asexual??

@doublemonkey

People have made jokes about asexual underwear. 😂😂

Jesus, can you not hear yourself? Please explain how that underwear was asexual??

I'm just saying, people were making jokes about asexuality. Laughing about it, as if it's something to be made fun of.

I have a great sense of humour and I'm always happy to laugh at myself. But a bunch of grown women finding it funny to take the piss out of a group of people who they think are weirdos who don't really exist isn't really very funny to me.

@vinsurvin - How was that underwear in any way asexual??

[quote doublemonkey]@vinsurvin - How was that underwear in any way asexual??[/quote]
It's not the underwear - it's the joking I object to.

Vinsurvin. It would be if that's what I said.
Bur I didn't say asexuals are paedophiles.
I said asexuality is a useful cover to hide behind. But I'm sure you know that.

@vinsurvin.

You should just be honest. Calling the underwear asexual was ridiculous and you know it.

vinsurvin
You have totally missed the point I was making. I think I am done with this thread as it's just become an exercise in sealioning.

No-one was making fun of the idea of asexuality, it just seems no big deal to most of us in a "you do you" kind of way.

The jokes about the underwear was that it was classic "sexy" underwear that I have zero interest in, as I imagine is similar for other feminists who aren't interested in wearing uncomfortable expensive straps to turn men on.

Surely there is a difference between a child's lack of sexuality because they have not reached sexual maturity, and an adult's asexuality once they reach sexual maturity.

Trying to imply to children that not having sexual feelings, that is totally standard at that age, means that they are asexual rather than pre-sexual is incorrect. Plus, let's not forget the massive safeguarding red flags of expecting untrained volunteers to discuss sexuality with children.

@WarriorN

Especially as ace people appear to have as much sex as anyone else.

Is it the rebranding of heterosexual?

My Dd had some fucking awful YA novel about sexuality. It was practically unreadable as prose anyway but what struck me was how sex obsessed it was.

Every fucking chapter - 'Oh god I'm at a party and some people are giving each other handjobs, how can I possibly admit I am Ace and I don't want to give anyone any hand jobs? Oh god now I am off to uni and people are shagging, how can I possibly admit I don't want to shag anyone? Oh god now my friend is talking about masturbating, how can I possibly admit I don't want to have a wank...' and on and on and on and on.

Give it a fucking rest love. Go and have a walk or something. Read a fucking book it might help you write one that's not shit

That's an autocorrect - it was about Asexuality . Although actually it was all about all kinds of sexuality so that's entirely appropriate.

My post was deleted and I read through the guidance and saw nothing remotely relevant, but my post did have the word gr**med in it, so perhaps that's seen as hate speech now?

Perhaps we need a list of banned words.

@NewlyGranny

My post was deleted and I read through the guidance and saw nothing remotely relevant, but my post did have the word gr**med in it, so perhaps that's seen as hate speech now?

Perhaps we need a list of banned words.

The g word has been a deletable offence for at least a year now.

It's often hard to have a conversation about safe guarding children without needing to use the word. I've really no idea what MN mods are thinking.

@vinsurvin

May I ask, do you have children?

I am sorry if you felt targeted. I have not read the whole thread. I wish you the very best in whatever you do and do not do.

The issue for me is the fact that I don’t want a strange adult to talk to my primary school aged children about sex. I don’t want them to talk about their sexual orientation. I don’t want them to talk about what they do or do not do in bed.

I am the parent and I will talk to them about that. We also have the PSHE curriculum in our schools. That is enough.

For me, a boundary is crossed when an adult discusses sex or sexual orientation with a child.