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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Ace week" in girl guiding.

392 replies

WarriorN · 30/10/2021 11:33

What fresh hell....

Thankfully a number of posters really not impressed. Worrying number think it's entirely appropriate Hmm

https://www.facebook.com/girlguidinguk/photos/a.398392309681/10158689026444682/?type=3

But it was worth reading it to find this excellent analysis of "Ace" identity and issues around it.

bryndisb.substack.com/p/asexuality-queering-the-mundane

OP posts:
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KatieAlcock · 02/11/2021 13:00

@ShadesOfMagenta

This is going to be covered on LBC Tom Swarbrick 10pm - 1am Mon night - just heard it trailed at the start of the program!!

@KatieAlcock

I missed your post but will have to catch up at some point (manic week here for many reasons).
CousinKrispy · 02/11/2021 13:48

Thanks for sharing your experiences, MeganKi. I guess I am a type of asexual too as I could define myself as demisexual, which TBH I privately consider just being an emotionally healthy human being, rather than a sexual orientation, though I realize it's not my place to judge people who enjoy sex without emotional connection.

I'm still concerned that GG is not the appropriate venue for this. The problem with teaching kids about asexuality in a way that doesn't reference sexual acts or feelings, is that boiling it down to "and some people don't like anyone!" just doesn't sound accurate to me. Again, homosexuality can be described fairly accurately in terms of relatiinships--"some men marry/fall in love with/go on dates with other men."

Saying "like" is too unspecific as kids might use like in its general sense, "I like Jessica because she's my friend, but I don't like Susan anymore, she took my favourite pencil." Don't you have to get into clarifying this? "Oh I didn't mean like as in friends, I meant LIKE like, like boyfriends and girlfriends, like dating."

Fine to say "and some people don't want to date, fall in love, get married at all" but I don't see how it's necessary to tie that to a sexual orientation.

Some people won't want to pair up for a variety of reasons, not just because they are ace.

Some ace people might in fact get married or have sex, according to what you're telling us.

Maybe don't put ace in a box. Just explain to kids that having a variety of family types and friendships and relationships is no big deal, including being on your own if that's what you prefer.

Helleofabore · 02/11/2021 14:20

Fine to say "and some people don't want to date, fall in love, get married at all" but I don't see how it's necessary to tie that to a sexual orientation.

Yes. This is exactly it.

There are adults posting on this thread that probably have absolutely no idea of the amount of pressure due to many external sources (many were not even around popular with that age group 5 years ago but are now) for this age group to 'define' themselves early and attach labels to fit in. Sexual orientation is one of those labels.

Or if they understand that this age group have this pressure, they are absolutely fine with this pressure. Why? Why does a Girl Guide need to have a fixed sexual orientation at 10, 12, or even 14?

It is not appropriate for GG leaders to be discussing this in any depth of specificity with this age group. If a child comes to them for advice, these leaders need to also be hugely conscious of the responsibility to respond to that child with facts and impartiality. A simple "and some people don't want to date, fall in love, get married at all" is all that is needed by a GG leader. If there is a need for safeguarding, that needs to be also addressed.

There is a different between highlighting family types to discussing sexual orientation from a personal perspective. I know that our GG leader for my teen, would have not been equipped with the appropriate training to address this issue.

HeddaAga · 02/11/2021 18:22

*Why does a Girl Guide need to have a fixed sexual orientation at 10, 12, or even 14?
*
Because there's an industry in it for DV&I charities and organisations that depend on ever younger kids being part of their audience, for the money. Organisations everywhere shilling for big Stonewall et al.

FrancescaContini · 02/11/2021 20:25

@HeddaAga

*Why does a Girl Guide need to have a fixed sexual orientation at 10, 12, or even 14? * Because there's an industry in it for DV&I charities and organisations that depend on ever younger kids being part of their audience, for the money. Organisations everywhere shilling for big Stonewall et al.
I really really hope that the time will come very very soon whereby some investigative journalists “join up all the dots” and start looking into this scandal and bring it into the public arena. I think that the BBC podcast on Stonewall was definitely a much-needed step in this direction but there needs to be more now.
2fallsfromSSA · 02/11/2021 23:00

SSAhas issued a statement detailing out Safeguarding concerns which we will also be sending to GIrl guiding.

We want them to meet with us to discuss our concerns.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/11/02/girl-guiding-and-asexuality/?fbclid=IwAR1w0JHcw7XoiRSOtMfRhWD5VI4UhPm6J2QdO_JnLQJ11B5cn9TqTXuLDJQ

MrsOvertonsWindow · 02/11/2021 23:11

[quote 2fallsfromSSA]SSAhas issued a statement detailing out Safeguarding concerns which we will also be sending to GIrl guiding.

We want them to meet with us to discuss our concerns.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/11/02/girl-guiding-and-asexuality/?fbclid=IwAR1w0JHcw7XoiRSOtMfRhWD5VI4UhPm6J2QdO_JnLQJ11B5cn9TqTXuLDJQ[/quote]
That's an excellent and informative response from SSA. Even the most ignorant about safeguarding guider should be able to understand that.
Well done.

TedImgoingmad · 02/11/2021 23:51

[quote 2fallsfromSSA]SSAhas issued a statement detailing out Safeguarding concerns which we will also be sending to GIrl guiding.

We want them to meet with us to discuss our concerns.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/11/02/girl-guiding-and-asexuality/?fbclid=IwAR1w0JHcw7XoiRSOtMfRhWD5VI4UhPm6J2QdO_JnLQJ11B5cn9TqTXuLDJQ[/quote]
As a GG leader, thank you for doing this.

Datun · 03/11/2021 04:27

Excellent letter. Really spells it out.

Unbelievable that a children's organisation is so ignorant about this. What on earth has gone wrong?

Organisations must operate a culture of vigilance, where concerns are taken seriously. And if there are cries of ‘racist’, ‘homophobe’, ‘transphobe’ and ‘pearl-clutchers’, we must all remember that these are recognised silencing techniques, and are to be ignored.

Clymene · 03/11/2021 06:16

That's a great letter from SSA. Thank you for sharing and I hope GGUK takes you up on the offer of a meeting. It feels as if they are hopelessly out of their depth

CousinKrispy · 03/11/2021 06:42

Thank you SSA.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/11/2021 06:46

This part of the letter really got to me:

He can use the cover of “I am an asexual so I have no sexual desire” to give the child a false sense of reassurance while he continues to groom her (or him). He can touch her without her worrying that it is a sexual touch.

Whatwouldscullydo · 03/11/2021 06:55

That's a really good letter.

Covers everything we have all worried about on this thread.

Helleofabore · 03/11/2021 06:57

Thank you 2fallsfromSSA that is a great letter.

Sittinginthesand · 03/11/2021 07:13

IMO the rebranding of asexuality as ‘ace’ is a bit of a red flag in itself, I’m not sure I can put my finger on why though.
I also seem to remember an ages old interview with Rolf Harris talking about not really having sexual feelings.

NewlyGranny · 03/11/2021 08:08

Are we starting to need a label, a flag, a lengthy description and a spectrum diagram for people who first get to know someone, then fancy them, fall in love and start a relationship?

I'm feeling a bit underprivileged and endangered without all that right now!

NewlyGranny · 03/11/2021 08:10

I guess the flag could be vanilla stripes on a vanilla background? I love vanilla - it is a highly prized, fragrant spice with a distinctive flavour, not an absence of anything interesting.

Clymene · 03/11/2021 08:22

@NewlyGranny

Are we starting to need a label, a flag, a lengthy description and a spectrum diagram for people who first get to know someone, then fancy them, fall in love and start a relationship?

I'm feeling a bit underprivileged and endangered without all that right now!

There's one already! Someone told me on another thread that you're a demisexual!

Here's your flag. Now you too can be part of the queer community Smile

"Ace week" in girl guiding.
Clymene · 03/11/2021 08:22

Sorry there's a random black line on that flag. It knew I was taking the piss Sad

secular111 · 03/11/2021 09:36

twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1453708383849156617

The ratio. My god the ratio!

I couldn't find a single reply in support.

littlbrowndog · 03/11/2021 09:38

Good piece from. Ssa

TedImgoingmad · 03/11/2021 09:46

@secular111

twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1453708383849156617

The ratio. My god the ratio!

I couldn't find a single reply in support.

When you scroll down the page, there's a meme saying , "So you platformed a genocidal rapist to own the trans". Why is this on the GGUK twitter page? Where children might see it?
Helleofabore · 03/11/2021 09:50

@secular111

twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1453708383849156617

The ratio. My god the ratio!

I couldn't find a single reply in support.

But the number of replies missing the entire point that it is not appropriate for guide leaders to be discussing their sexual orientation with children (accept in passing comments about family status etc).

Sometimes I feel people are as thick as mince and will refuse to see the issue because they are so deep in a entrenched view. It is not a personal attack on whether someone is of any sexual orientation, it is the point of discussing it with children and ensuring safeguarding is able to be fully adhered to.

2fallsfromSSA · 03/11/2021 12:58

I know some people have posted our article in their guiding groups and there has been no response. People just do not want to see it. Shocking really

There is a GG leaders group on MN. I posted the article there. Will see if anyone there wishes to engage.

averylongtimeago · 03/11/2021 13:26

Most guiding groups on fb just delete any posts on this issue. If you persist, you are banned from the group.