Kathleen Stock has resigned

[nevernomore]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kathleen-stock-resigns-from-universuty-of-sussex-after-trans-rights-row-h0pns6lds

I wish she hadn't. Bullies should not be allowed to win. It just emboldens them.

I see Kemi Badenoch has spoken sensibly and compassionately about this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10149859/Equalities-minister-Kemi-Badenoch-says-appalled-treatment-Kathleen-Stock.html

Our politicians in Labour and Lib Dims are yet again siding with domestic terrorists. Very depressing

@MargaritaPie

I hope the students' victory at Sussex will mean students at other Universities will speak up if they have concerns regarding a professor who has hateful views.

Her views are public. She's written a whole book laying them out. By defining them as hateful, you are confirming that you are opposed to gay and lesbian rights, to women's rights, to safeguarding children, to evidence-based medicine and science, to respect and tolerance, to democracy, liberalism, human rights and the rule of law.

The Germans would say you've issued yourself a damning Armutszeignis there.

@BraveBananaBadge

Two takeaways from the i article:

• 'we're paying for this' so they have to do what we want
• the belief the uni has "chosen" "not to do the right thing" by not bending to them.

I don't understand the "we're paying for it" bit.

One of the reasons for picking a private school over a state school was knowing it would be far easier for the school to get rid of disruptive pupils hence my own little darling had to toe the line too. Paying for his education never led me to think I could dictate terms to the school.

@MargaritaPie

I hope the students' victory at Sussex will mean students at other Universities will speak up if they have concerns regarding a professor who has hateful views.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire

I don't understand the "we're paying for it" bit. One of the reasons for picking a private school over a state school was knowing it would be far easier for the school to get rid of disruptive pupils hence my own little darling had to toe the line too. Paying for his education never led me to think I could dictate terms to the school.

But this is not the way that UK universities work. Universities such as Sussex recruit students (they do not easily fill all their places) & they need to aim for high student satisfaction (NSS scores) as satisfaction scores affect their league table positions. Students can have much more influence on universities like Sussex than they would have on selective private schools.

It is much easier for universities like Oxford and Cambridge to push back on student demands as they are heavily over-subscribed and do not need to care so much about student satisfaction.

@MargaritaPie

"I hope they get better at identifying hate"

Ms Stock is a trustee of the LGB Alliance. Non?

Which has been investigated to within an inch of its life and found to be not hateful

This is what Kathleen Stock says about trans people.

“Trans people are trans people. We should get over it. They deserve to be safe, to be visible throughout society without shame or stigma, and to have exactly the life opportunities non-trans people do.”

Can you explain what is hateful about this statement @MargaritaPie?

@MargaritaPie

"I hope they get better at identifying hate"

Ms Stock is a trustee of the LGB Alliance. Non?

So what?

Couldn't see this posted anywhere?
www.aol.co.uk/news/equalities-minister-condemns-abuse-professor-121659337.html

MargaritaPie - you`ll have to do a lot better than that if you want to insinuate that KS is a hateful transphobe. Your claim doesnt bear any scrutiny. You just reminded me to give a second donation to the LGB Alliance by the way - good to know that someone is standing up for lesbians.

I've also been inspired to donate to the LGB Alliance too as a result of the hateful spurious wordvom on this thread.

@MargaritaPie

"I hope they get better at identifying hate"

Ms Stock is a trustee of the LGB Alliance. Non?

So you’re against gay and lesbian rights then? That’s a pretty hateful position you know.

@MargaritaPie

"I hope they get better at identifying hate"

Ms Stock is a trustee of the LGB Alliance. Non?

You think a lesbian is 'hateful' for being in an organisation which defends the sex and sexual orientation- based rights of lesbians?

I'm involved in the radfem community on Tumblr and have just proposed an initiative over there (currently called #Stockathon) where as many of us as possible will read and live-blog/discuss Material Girls, hopefully starting over the next few months. Those of us who are interested will also look into her other published work. This is my intro post if you're interested.

I wonder how MNers would feel about extending the initiative over here in some way? The Tumblr GC community felt like the ideal setting for this as many of us are university-aged (and this whole affair was about 'protecting' university students from certain speech), but it would be brilliant if it reached Mumsnet and twitter too. I'm especially interested in getting some intergenerational solidarity going. Not sure how it would work logistically (on Tumblr we'll just post anything relevant and use the tag to find each other) - let me know if you're interested though!

@NoWireHangersEver

I'm involved in the radfem community on Tumblr and have just proposed an initiative over there (currently called #Stockathon) where as many of us as possible will read and live-blog/discuss Material Girls, hopefully starting over the next few months. Those of us who are interested will also look into her other published work. This is my intro post if you're interested.

I wonder how MNers would feel about extending the initiative over here in some way? The Tumblr GC community felt like the ideal setting for this as many of us are university-aged (and this whole affair was about 'protecting' university students from certain speech), but it would be brilliant if it reached Mumsnet and twitter too. I'm especially interested in getting some intergenerational solidarity going. Not sure how it would work logistically (on Tumblr we'll just post anything relevant and use the tag to find each other) - let me know if you're interested though!

Sonds great. Logistics wise maybe just start a new thread on this topic - FWR? And then interested parties can find their way together at least.

I am a bit confused about how you can be GC radfems of university age though, as we know all those who believe TWATW are rights hoarding dinosaurs who will be dead soon?

MargaritaPie

<strong>"I hope they get better at identifying hate"</strong>

Ms Stock is a trustee of the LGB Alliance. Non?

Say you're a misogynist and homophobe without saying you're a misogynist and homophobe.

Not sure why my post was deleted. What I said is fact and can be easily verified.

@missfliss

I've also been inspired to donate to the LGB Alliance too as a result of the hateful spurious wordvom on this thread.

I will drop a little something to Stonewall too, perhaps as a little thank you to them for helping to safely evacuate LGBT people from Afghanistan.

Can you link to some information about the evacuation from Afghanistan? I heard this mentioned a couple of weeks,ago, but I couldn't find any reports.
TIA.

You said that the professor held "hateful views". Seems that MNHQ do not agree. Please don't hesitate to contact them direct for an explanation.

Best not repeat what your deleted post said. HTH.

inews.co.uk/news/world/afghanistan-evacuation-lgbt-people-afghan-rescued-taliban-arrive-uk-1275695

And Stonewall's tweet: twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1454350575110344707

@Flibberty, all I'm going to say is that there is more than 1 side of the debate on that matter.

Fantastic work by stonewall and glad to hear about Rainbow Road too. It's noticeable that practical aspects of Stonewall's work such as Stonewall Housing look far more pragmatic and more valuable than its multilevel marketing scheme for performative bureaucrats. I also look at student activists in balaclavas hounding lesbian teachers, again in the UK, and wonder how on earth an organisation with good perspective on the global situation gets it so wrong here.

Flibberty, all I'm going to say is that there is more than 1 side of the debate on that matter.

You could attempt to explain what you think is wrong with what Stock has said, but that would require forming a coherent argument rather than just throwing out a slur, and would probably clear up any doubt about your homophobia and misogyny, so I can understand your reticence. I’m sure MNHQ wouldn’t delete a post that genuinely attempted to debate Stock’s position, with words and arguments and so on.

Are we supposed to be impressed Stonewall is actually doing what it's meant to re Afghanistan? If they would stick to that instead of eroding the rights of women in general and lesbians in particular we'd all still be supporting them. The founders and members who have subsequently left to form LGBA would still have been with them.

BTW, If anyone wants to support getting some women in dire need out of Afghanistan see Helena Kennedy's campaign

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4386953-Help-needed-for-Afghan-women-judges-lawyers-activists-escaping-Taliban