BBC article about cotton ceiling

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385 including Angela Wild, Rose of Dawn and Debbie Hayton. There’s no way this would have been published even just a few months ago 🤯

I've once seen a claim that trans women can never rape cis women because cis women have privilege over trans women. And because of that, whatever trans women do to cis women it is not rape.

Some of the apologists on this thread come scarily close to that kind of rhetoric.

www.ted.com/talks/chimamanda_ngozi_adichie_the_danger_of_a_single_story?language=en

This is a great Ted Talk highlighting how these 'single stories' operate.

There are suggestions on twitter that the BBC has received a load of complaints about the article (quelle surprise) so positive feedback is important to balance things out. I just sent something brief thanking them for a balanced and fair report etc.

Please consider leaving positive feedback to show that there are plenty of people who think this article is important and necessary.
www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments

Do we so expect trans people to examine how societal prejudices have shaped their identities? Isn't that GC territory? Would it mean that this thorny issue could all be sorted out by examining the societal preasures rather than bowing to them? Or is the idea that sexual attraction is shaped by societal prejudice but identity is not? Given the previous call for extensive robust evidence, can we have have some to support that position then?

When articles which focus on vulnerable minority groups, which many people don't have much direct prolonged contact with, pair up that social group with a particular association, that more readily becomes a focal point and a stereotype for that particular group, due to the larger lack of public knowledge about them.

Right, but the article is reporting the current state of affairs. It's not saying transwomen are bad, it's saying this is happening in society, And the worst part of the article for transwomen is Stonewall's homophobic statement.

If stonewall and others hadn't been telling lesbians they're transphobic if they don't change their sexual orientation and if they hadn't been telling transwomen that lesbians are the problem, then we wouldn't be in this mess and transwomen wouldn't be going on tinder dates with lesbians without mentioning the fact they're trans beforehand, as if there's no way in the world it might be relevant to a lesbian.

This is an article about men and rape.

@littlbrowndog

Finn. Ffs

How very fucking dare he. Attempting to compel solidarity whilst acknowledging they rape us. I'm afraid appealing to my esprit de corps in this circumstance is as pointless as it is hypocritical - whatever happened to "kind"? How quickly the mask falls..

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1453112843709161482?t=rriCt8YiNuiKYlq3ihJfVw&s=19

As seen earlier in this thread.

Oh, and comments/compliments sent...!

So that is a difficulty for an already marginalised, vulnerable group which many people in the general public don't actually have extensive interactions with to from their own opinions

The marginalized, vulnerable group in this article are the lesbians.

But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.

Stonewall said that. Stonewall.

@OvaHere

This is an article about men and rape.

And the 'already marginalised, vulnerable group which many people in the general public don't actually have extensive interactions with to from their own opinions' who women on a feminist board should prioritise are the lesbians - many of them young - who are their victims.

Shame on the people minimising or deflecting from this.

Some people in Stonewall really are thick as mince aren't they? Logic 101 might be helpful.

Wow. Do you think Stonewall realise that for some lesbians, their sexuality has been influenced by being sexually abused by men at a young age? Does that count as a "societal pressure", and is Stonewall suggesting those women have a rethink? Unbelievable.

I want everyone who pretends this isn't happening to be asked one question.

Should a lesbian be able to put a profile on a dating site saying she is only interested in dating natal females and have this respected?

Unless they can say yes, not only are they confirming lesbians are being bullied into sleeping with males, they are participating in that bullying.

is Stonewall suggesting those women have a rethink?

Yep - it's basically "give your head a wobble, lesbians".

Don’t you want me ladies

I am a lesbian in my mind 🤣

@CharlieParley

Don't be disingenuous, suggestionsplease1. The group exclusively same-sex attracted females are making a blanket judgement about by rejecting them as potential partners are all male people. That's what the whole article is about: blanket rejection of all members of the male sex class as sexual or romantic partners, no matter what. And the hostility they receive in response is what Stonewall was asked to comment on.

In what way is it okay for Stonewall to suggest that such exclusively same-sex attracted females ought to reconsider their judgement in light of the wider social picture?

All heterosexuals should examine their prejudice and accept same sex partners or they are homophobic.

Sorry no. Stonewall didn't say that.

Why didn't they?

Why didn't they say something about heterosexuals rejecting same sex partners as a form of homophobia?

Or gay men rejecting transmen? Or gay men specifying their 'type' in dating apps?

Etcetera

Funny isn't it, why its all about the mean lesbians who need to address their sexuality and be inclusive of penises? And no one else is pestered about their lack of inclusiveness.

Unless they can say yes, not only are they confirming lesbians are being bullied into sleeping with males, they are participating in that bullying.

Most of the lesbian profiles in my area/age range are either transwomen or they say "strictly no TERFs".

So that's fun...

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.

Stonewall said that. Stonewall.

But if you find that when making press statements, you are writing off entire groups of the people you purportedly represent, like lesbians, then it's worth considering how money may have shaped your policy making.

Stonewall sold us out.

Sorry, I know this is off the point of the thread maybe, but...

Men aren't an extreme minority group facing large amounts or prejudice and discrimination already

Exactly!

I think some people are missing that Stonewall is denying that homosexuality exists.

Stonewall say it's a case-by-case thing and every individual is free to decide who they want to date. They try to distance themselves from the idea they're condemning lesbians by pretending this is about individuals and not about classes of people.

But they're not a random freedom peace and love group promoting happiness and whatever you feel like for each individual - they're supposed to be representing the class of people who are homosexuals!

@LonginesPrime

Unless they can say yes, not only are they confirming lesbians are being bullied into sleeping with males, they are participating in that bullying.

Most of the lesbian profiles in my area/age range are either transwomen or they say "strictly no TERFs".

So that's fun...

strictly no TERFs".

Exactly what the article was talking about.

Just to highlight here in case anyone didn't see:

"There are rapey creeps in our community unfortunately. I jst don't think it's going to help us to address it"

In a nutshell.
"unfortunately" = oh dear what rotten luck, still can't do much about it eh?