I don't want to add my pronouns at the end of an email, but I can't explain why...

[MrsPsmalls]

Just that really. NHS and we've been encouraged by people who have had 'training' to add our pronouns. I'm a woman and mine are she her. I could do this but I don't want to. I said as much to the inclusivity person. She actually works for me and inclusivity is an add on to her regular job. She said I should as it makes it easier for trans people who want to add theirs. Should I just do it? Obvs she can't make me as I am her manager, but I have created unpleasantness. I don't care how I'm referred to and have never been wrongly pronouned!

💐@QueenDanu

Can anybody explain why the gender ideology philosophy objects to the binary nature of biological sex, but then offers just two restrictive options for gender?? A female option and a male option? It makes no sense.

oh sorry, yes, they / their

Forgot

@FindTheTruth

don't put pronouns in your email at work. don't be compelled. don't submit. don't be the cause of fear in another woman when she sees you use pronouns.

This is very smart.

@Itsanewdah

i’ve heard more than one office temper tantrum about people being called he/Mr if they saw themselves as she/Ms, and the other way round. So tell me if its important to you! If not, who cares.

As someone with a unisex name that is more often used with males you will hear me correct people " its Mrs actually not Mr." I have had people argue with me that "the computer says male" and I stand firm (odly I know if I am Mr or Mrs) many will take that as a tantrum. Its not a tantrum. Its me as a female standing my ground and not being walked all over. When I read comments like yours I wonder if its a tantrum like you claim or someone having to deal with idiots who can't simply say. "Oh so sorry I was mistaken" and then move on.

I’m not english, how am I supposed to know that Ciaran is “he” or “willow” is usually “she”.
I am not British either.. I took the time to learn and until I had learned I communicated and asked politely. Never fails manners and politeness gets you far with people.

I worked for an Irish organisation - I was asked so many times ‘what part of Ireland are you from?’. I’m not Irish and didn’t get offended for being asked (or even when someone assumed for some reason that I was Japanese).

A virtual work meeting. The facilitator asked us all to share our name and pronouns. Of the 13 people present, the only ones to share their ‘she/her’ pronouns were obvious women. None of the men present did. Other than the initial request, there was no pressure.

I think this is one of the most telling statements in this whole thread. I've not been asked at my workplace and the dynamic is such that I cannot imagine it would be expected. I'd certainly say no if asked, but I think its so interesting how gendered socialisation plays out in all of these circumstances.

@QueenDanu

Can anybody explain why the gender ideology philosophy objects to the binary nature of biological sex, but then offers just two restrictive options for gender?? A female option and a male option? It makes no sense.

I increasingly see a free-text box where people are invited to name/describe theirs.

I received an email today where not only had the male sender included pronouns but their email signature had a link to an article saying "why I share my my pronouns and why you should too". I will be very wary in my dealings with his organisation in future. In fact I am tempted to complain as its a public body.

@EerilyDisembodied

I received an email today where not only had the male sender included pronouns but their email signature had a link to an article saying "why I share my my pronouns and why you should too". I will be very wary in my dealings with his organisation in future. In fact I am tempted to complain as its a public body.

That's quite common, it's the Medium article isn't it?

I, too, interact with public bodies (NHS, NICE and a slew of NGOs and VCO) and I can't think when I last had an email from any of them that didn't have pronouns in the sig file.

I've had pronouns before but not a link to that article, that's what I'd be complaining about. Not right to push that at people IMO.

My workplace had an article on pronouns and allyship the other day. Tellingly, over 200 people had read it, yet it only had 7 likes. We work in a field where biological reality is important, and I think that is very relevant to the above statement....

Just completely ignore it.

She has recommended it. You don't have to do it. Just leave it and move on.

Pronouns on an email signature are fucking ridiculous.

Tellingly, over 200 people had read it, yet it only had 7 likes

@Immunetypegoblin

My workplace had an article on pronouns and allyship the other day. Tellingly, over 200 people had read it, yet it only had 7 likes. We work in a field where biological reality is important, and I think that is very relevant to the above statement....

This stuff is so sinister, it's basically telling you how what is 'right-think'. And scarier still that it has infiltrated many public organisations.

When will the infection of Stonewall be over?

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/pronouns/

I'd say that since I was 16, I've been deliberately not using my full first name or stating my marital status in correspondence because it's known that a female sender experiences discrimination compared to a male and I am not about to facilitate that discrimination after 30-odd years of resisting that pressure.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

I'd say that since I was 16, I've been deliberately not using my full first name or stating my marital status in correspondence because it's known that a female sender experiences discrimination compared to a male and I am not about to facilitate that discrimination after 30-odd years of resisting that pressure.

Exactly. After giving up on the vileness of twitter, i decided instead to create a new account with a male name and male photo. No issues at all. None. And i post regularly articles connected to women's rights. And i also respond to misogynists who then dont resort to pming me vile things either. Its almost like being female, or being assumed to be female, makes men speak to you like crap. Who knew?!

I liked a suggestion I read: 'No, I'm happy to put my faith in the English language".

Wow @LorenzoVonMatterhorn.. that's a social experiment that is worth documenting. What a miserable time to be female it truly is.

After giving up on the vileness of twitter, i decided instead to create a new account with a male name and male photo. No issues at all. None. And i post regularly articles connected to women's rights. And i also respond to misogynists who then dont resort to pming me vile things either. Its almost like being female, or being assumed to be female, makes men speak to you like crap.

Which illustrates perfectly why so many young women are attracted to the notion of identifying out of their oppression.

Obviously, that only really works online where biology doesn't come into it, but when young people have grown up online, it makes perfect sense as that's the main place they exist.

@EerilyDisembodied

I received an email today where not only had the male sender included pronouns but their email signature had a link to an article saying "why I share my my pronouns and why you should too". I will be very wary in my dealings with his organisation in future. In fact I am tempted to complain as its a public body.

If I included a link in my signature saying "Why I hold XYZ position on such-and-such social issue and why you should, too," I'd fully expect to be fired. He can have whatever opinions he wants, but unless the purpose of his organization is to advocate for that type of issue, he's got no place telling others what to do in a professional capacity.

Exactly. No idea whether it is a standard footer for his employer or whether he has added it himself. Unfortunately it's to do with my DC and I don't want to mess things up for them bu being "that mum" but I won't forget.

Had this at work - our LGBTQ+ rep encouraging the people In that network to do so and I said I didn’t want to. One of the reasons given by an ‘ally’ was it’s ‘useful’ if you have a unisex name for people to know if you’re a man or a woman and I told the
Grp that I have found it useful for people not to n is over the years too as they haven’t made assumptions based on my gender ( worked with MEA clients a lot) a s left it like that.
End of as far as I was concerned. And the my can think what they like. I’m gay and very supportive of LGBTQ+ in many ways, but asking everyone to use their pronouns isn’t something I think is necessary.

The attempt to normalise stating pronouns is an attempt to destabilise the link between sex and pronouns. Already there has been a largely successful attempt to make the use of sex based pronouns for someone who claims a transgender identity as “so bad” that it should be illegal. The use of pronouns in signatures or on badges for people where sex based pronouns are obvious (including transgender people who have transitioned) is starting from a “decided” position that pronouns are not about sex for anyone, but about gender identity for everyone. When you declare your pronouns you are making a concession that you agree that they refer to gender identity not sex, which in turn feeds into the narrative that you cannot assume anyone’s gender identity and that you must check in order not to be wrong. The combination of how heinous it is to be wrong, and the diktat that you must never assume, puts a massive block on easy and effective communication.

This is not about people with unisex names or people with sexed names that are uncommon in the dominant culture. People with such names have always existed and any confusion is readily sorted out where it becomes relevant. Who knows, there might be the odd person with one of these names who likes to help someone else know their sex so that they don’t get embarrassed by using the wrong pronouns (you do occasionally see references to titles, so maybe that is a reason that people occasionally declare them). The important point though is that asserting pronouns/titles in this circumstance is about ensuing someone is using the correct pronouns within a sex-based system. It is about clarification, not about replacing an existing system with something new.

If there were not this major assault on sex-based language, spaces, services and rights going on, I would actually think that it is fine for people who reject sex based pronouns to include pronouns in their signature if it is important at to them. I may vehemently agree with their belief system or not understand it, but I don’t mind knowing that that is their belief system and that it is important to them. I do massively object, however, to yet another attempt to retrofit new and highly controversial and damaging concepts onto society by usurping common language and pretending that they are not doing so. I also object to the use of minority culture names and unisex names in support of this.