14th October 'Nolan Investigates' podcast - Stonewall?

[Helleofabore]

This sounds interesting.

A special ‘Nolan Investigates’ podcast drops tomorrow afternoon on @BBCSounds. An 18 month investigation into the influence of a lobby group on public bodies throughout the UK. More details in the morning

It seems to be about Stonewall.

Anyone know more about it?

There is some chatter about it on Twitter.

twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1448052827088109568?s=21

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1448205588253618176?s=21

(Tweet from JCJ says:

Okay, at last, here it is.

The BBC Ulster documentary on the influence of Stonewall on public life in the UK.

Many GC women have been interviewed for this.

Let's take the lid off this thing shall we?

Owen believes Owen is "something else entirely" to a man or a woman. Spoiler - they isn't. It is ludicrous. I think Nolan wasn't even attempting a gotcha but genuinely attempting to understand - these were all v reasonable questions that, if NBs want to be taken seriously, they should be able to answer clearly and in full. The genderfuck bit was hilarious though.

Benjamin Cohen made no sense on justifying the removal of the word mother from maternity policies by using lesbian couples as an example. The lesbians I know who have kids are happily called mothers by their kids. They'd be quite cross with BC for suggesting that it is somehow discrimatory or exclusive to call lesbian mothers mothers as if only straight women have a right to that word.

Yeah, I didn't get the point he was trying to make?

Seemed like he was desperately trying to make it look as though erasing our language is massively beneficial to the majority of women, and they're not doing it to please a tiny few that you could count on one hand?

But as you say, it makes no sense, because lesbians are mothers, their kids call them mum

Do some lesbians object to being called mothers? I've personally never seen that, has anyone here? I would be interested to hear their arguments if they are offended by this.

@Fukuraptor

Non-binary mayor is the gift that keeps on giving.

Owen is worried that if they are murdered because they are non binary, that if non binaryness isn't a protected characteristic then it won't be a hate crime. That discrimination at work won't be quantified.

Exactly Owen. If being a woman isn't recognised then how can we talk meaningfully talk about the discrimination and violence women face?

Also being recognised as a protected characteristic doesn't mean that stuff counts as hate crimes. Just ask women. If you can figure out which humans are women.

It's so ironic that they doesn't even see what they is saying! Yes, we do need to be able to identify the basis on which we are discriminated against, murdered, aborted. Yet Owen seems to refuse to do so! Not being a woman is not an excuse!

@WarriorN

Bit early for Sally...

Just dropping in here on a break after episode 4 (which seems a natural pause for breath point if PP are anything to go by)

Agree re Owen the Mayor, I kind of feel sorry for them. People just don't feel special unless they're marginalised anymore.

One curiosity caught my eye, The Times has two stories about the findings of this podcast and for both the comments have been turned off. This doesn't happen that often, it tends to when there are ongoing legal aspects.

[quote Ameanstreakamilewide]@WarriorN

Bit early for Sally...[/quote]

To be fair it was last night.

Should be starting soon though. 👀

Owen is worried that if they are murdered because they are non binary, that if non binaryness isn't a protected characteristic then it won't be a hate crime. That discrimination at work won't be quantified.

Will Owen be more dead?

She's claiming KS "knows what she's doing."

Pitiful likes in comparison to many others inc stock.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Owen is worried that if they are murdered because they are non binary, that if non binaryness isn't a protected characteristic then it won't be a hate crime. That discrimination at work won't be quantified.

Will Owen be more dead?

It's bonkers.

Misogyny isn't a hate crime. And actually I've now heard good reasoning for it not to be (any questions last Friday.)

Just think, give it 20 years and Owen is a middle manager in a logistics company or somesuch and has wholly unsurprising coloured hair and people who know them find episode 4 and go to them and say "so, Owen, this interview you gave ..."

I'm thoroughly enjoying the podcast. Nolan's studied air of startled incredulity at key points is a joy. But I have to say none of it is a surprise. All of it, and more (with the exception, so far, of the NDAs.) has been discussed on here, at length, on numerous threads for several years.

The women on mumsnet are the most shit hot sleuths I've ever encountered. And the analysis of their findings is world class.

So, although I'm hoping it's a ground breaking podcast, I heard it all here first.

So far...

Will Owen be more dead?

That's the line from True Grit

• Why did they hang him so high in the tree?
• Presumably in the mistaken belief that it would make him more dead.

Just skimmed the thread & excited to listen to this.

Nolan is a bit of an eye roll figure here in NI but I thought this shows a bit of how backward we are that this is how it's posted by PPNI on Facebook. So many folk here don't even have this on their radar as an issue.

Interesting comparisons.

I think it is genuinely true that Stonewall is having far more effect on public policy than any of those groups.

The others are no doubt getting some quite specific "big-ticket" things through behind the scenes, but they're not managing to influence millions of people's lives (particularly women's) directly via thousands of public and private bodies.

they're not managing to influence millions of people's lives (particularly women's) directly via thousands of public and private bodies.

And also not getting the public and private bodies to pay them, in order to receive the lobbying.

And also not getting the public and private bodies to pay them, in order to receive the lobbying.

Well, quite. Yes. There's so much outrage here I can't even remember it all . Thank you!

Although arguably some of them do, indirectly, at least, like the arms trade. Lot of government purchases there.

But not as blatant as just "I'll pay you to tell us what to do".

I've finally listened to the non-binary episode. The sheer drivel nearly gave me a headache. 😵😵😵

The episode 4 interview with Dr Bell is jaw dropping.

“The Equality and Human Rights Commission says it told Stonewall it would be leaving the Diversity Champions scheme in March.”

Oh my... did I miss this then?

I don't know whether it makes me proud that we on mumsnet have been talking about this issue for years (I know it's been 5 and a half years for me) or whether it is just thoroughly depressing that it has taken so long, too long, for other people to take this seriously
So many children have been through gender affirming treatment in that time 😔. We're now at a point when males are in women's prisons and women's sentences are lengthened if they misgender them. 😕
How long before this podcast really gets the exposure it deserves?

Yes, it was noticed and discussed at the time:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4252103-EHRC-cuts-ties-with-Stonewall

Notini L, Earp BD, Gillam L, et alForever young? The ethics of ongoing puberty suppression for non-binary adultsJournal of Medical Ethics 2020;46:743-752.

jme.bmj.com/content/46/11/743.abstract

The commentaries in response are interesting.

I can open the paper but not access any comments, Hadrosaurus. Frustrating!

I think it should be compulsory listening for hear teachers, higher education heads, C suite folks on forms who are stonewall ‘I wanna stary badge’ collectors, government...

Btw, Sally Hines having a tantrum and no one is noticing