14th October 'Nolan Investigates' podcast - Stonewall?

[Helleofabore]

This sounds interesting.

A special ‘Nolan Investigates’ podcast drops tomorrow afternoon on @BBCSounds. An 18 month investigation into the influence of a lobby group on public bodies throughout the UK. More details in the morning

It seems to be about Stonewall.

Anyone know more about it?

There is some chatter about it on Twitter.

twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1448052827088109568?s=21

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1448205588253618176?s=21

(Tweet from JCJ says:

Okay, at last, here it is.

The BBC Ulster documentary on the influence of Stonewall on public life in the UK.

Many GC women have been interviewed for this.

Let's take the lid off this thing shall we?

[Outbutnotoutout]

We are having to listen in sections, as its pure rage, then disbelief, then sadness.

Really good though

I'm hoping it touches on prisons

[Manderleyagain]

Thanks erinaceus that looks interesting. I'm sure we could think of a few people to nominate for their double-speak award too!

[erinaceus]

@Manderleyagain You could consider nominating the podcast for the Orwell Award?

[Manderleyagain]

I thought the non binary mayor came across well (or would have) if they were a teenager talking about themself and how they and their mates see things. When they were talking about 'queer coding' in clothes etc to signal your membership of a tribe to others, that showed how much this has taken the place of goths, grunge, etc. But they are not just a teenager giving a point of view. They are a politician making truth claims which they want others to accept, trying to explain things which they argue should have legal rights attached. Once you attach legal rights to something, along with social conventions, that brings serious obligations for everyone else. These are serious policy discussions, and the claims we heard were based on things that are not true. It's not true that others can't know this person's sex, or that sex is irrelevant except to your doctor.

What awards can we nominate this series for? Does the Paul Foot Awards do podcasts, or is it just for text based journalism? What other awards are there for this kind of thing? If it was shortlisted for a prestigious award it would get more listeners. And maybe they would broadcast it on radio 4.

[Outbutnotoutout]

Ep 5

Bloody interesting

[Outbutnotoutout]

I'm finding his constant use of CIS really offensive

[Outbutnotoutout]

Just listening now...

Non binary

FFS surely this mayor is bi-sexual

[Sacreblue]

I’m still hoping for an investigation into the influence/pressure put on charities to adopt Stonewall language/interpretation of the law.

Charities generally exist to represent, support and lift up vulnerable groups.

How much damage has been done to their reputations at best, their missions in general, and most importantly the vulnerable groups they exist for?

E.g. female victims of male violence being excluded from what were single sex services because the language changed and it is no longer clear if those services are single sex.

Seriously, when the most vulnerable are involved we know they will be targeted - so why the actual fuck do those working with them (churches, charities, police etc) seem to get a pass on safe-guarding?

They should have more scrutiny because of who they work with, not patted on the head for any good deed with all the horrific bad deeds swept under the carpet.

[oldwomanwhoruns]

Thx @FindTheTruth, I didn't actually hear him mention the number of the episode, he just seemed to be trying to evade. Or vanish. Or dematerialize. I was a bit disappointed after hearing the glorious Baroness, so perhaps I wasn't listening very hard. I was hoping for better.

[bordersroaming]

Agreed

[OldCrone]

@bordersroaming

Societal pressure has little to do with law

It's the pressure to conform that comes from your peer group

Pressure between teenagers mostly

Which is controlled far more by advertising and social media than law

Growing up in the 70s and 80s girls seem to have had more support to be mind conforming than today at the peer group level

If it's just a youth movement it should come to a natural end fairly quickly as a new trend emerges, or the main players in this one start to be seen as old and out of touch. But the problem with what's happening now is that it's being reinforced by middle aged men for completely different reasons.

It's a shame that girls doing what was completely normal 50 years ago now feel the need to label themselves as 'special' and sometimes do themselves harm. Useful for those middle aged men, though.

[FindTheTruth]

oldwomanwhoruns the reply said I haven't listened to episode 9, so perhaps several of them will now listen to it! who knows...

[SteakExpectations]

The response seemed to be “I haven’t heard it, we can’t openly denounce Stonewall, please help us BBC, you’re our only hope”

[oldwomanwhoruns]

Thanks for the link to Baroness Fox, @FindTheTruth. The wonderful lady asked the question! (about Ofcom/Nolan) But I do think that the bland reply rather fobbed her off? But is it significant that the question got asked at all?

[bordersroaming]

Societal pressure has little to do with law

It's the pressure to conform that comes from your peer group

Pressure between teenagers mostly

Which is controlled far more by advertising and social media than law

Growing up in the 70s and 80s girls seem to have had more support to be mind conforming than today at the peer group level

[OldCrone]

I would be minded to say none binary isn't about being "super special "

It's a logical interpretation of self if you are raised in a world where gender compliance is strongly enforced

You mean somewhere like Afghanistan or Iran?

It doesn't really make sense in a modern western democracy with equality laws.

[FindTheTruth]

This afternoon in the House of Lords Baroness Fox asks about the Nolan Investigates Stonewall and Ofcom - timestamp 14:44:31
parliamentlive.tv/event/index/3af431d5-923d-46d3-a9ec-3bf5a3ad7d2f?in=14:44:31

[thirdfiddle]

The more gender identity gets bedded into popular culture, the more people are going to realise it's sex that matters.

Pure practicality.

Can I share a bedroom with x friend mum? Depends. If you hit it off particularly well that night is one of you going to get pregnant or not DNonbinaryOffspring?

On this school trip we will share dorms by ... Ah, sorry don't have single rooms for gender fluid, demiboy and masc nonbinary, and the two genderfree kids are of the body types which could generate a pregnancy between them so they definitely can't share a double. Er...

[KittenKong]

@KittiesInsane

DD was explaining to me, rather perturbed, that she'd thought a new (teenage) friend was a girl, and that they'd arranged to go clothes shopping together, but now 'it turns out they're nonbinary, so I don't know how I feel about that any more'.

She was a bit unimpressed when I said 'Nonbinary male, or nonbinary female?' but admitted that this nonbinary-person, who looked to her eyes like a girl, is indeed a female-type-of-nonbinary-person; so I wished them well and suggested the shopping trip should go ahead.

Christ, some people make their own lives complicated.

Just ask what sex they are. She does realise that male and female bodies are different shape and no amount or relabelling will change that.

[bordersroaming]

I would be minded to say none binary isn't about being "super special "

It's a logical interpretation of self if you are raised in a world where gender compliance is strongly enforced

Yes I can see it helps to reinforce the gender binary they reject but if see the gender binary as invincible then it makes sense

[KittiesInsane]

DD was explaining to me, rather perturbed, that she'd thought a new (teenage) friend was a girl, and that they'd arranged to go clothes shopping together, but now 'it turns out they're nonbinary, so I don't know how I feel about that any more'.

She was a bit unimpressed when I said 'Nonbinary male, or nonbinary female?' but admitted that this nonbinary-person, who looked to her eyes like a girl, is indeed a female-type-of-nonbinary-person; so I wished them well and suggested the shopping trip should go ahead.

Christ, some people make their own lives complicated.

[CreepingDeath]

@seethesuninwintertime

I didn't think the non binary person in episode 4 was that bad. S/he seemed alright when talking about him/herself and shied away from having opinions about other people.

I was expecting someone aggressive and monstrous!

anyway it was good in that it didn't make me angry and helped me understand a bit what all those "non-binary" teenagers are telling themselves.

I thought he sounded so nonsensical, and just waffled about self indulgent nonsense. He was incredibly me, me, me...

And I still don't really understand what non binary is after listening to him. It just seems to be the new brand of 'I'm super special, I'm not like other people'.

[LaetitiaASD]

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

Quote Laetitia ASD 'I categorically would not wish to discriminate or breach the law, but equally I would find it incomprehensible if someone voted tory, believed in god or believed in stonewall and was cable of logically looking at facts.'

Are you sure you really mean this? So with the other 3 parties actively trying to erase women as a sex class with self-id, you cannot fathom that someone who voted Tory would be capable of logically looking at facts...?
I think maybe you need to apply some critical thinking yourself.

I can see why someone might vote tory at the moment, kinda, but then again I can see why someone might think that destroying the NHS and democracy and all human rights is worse that eliminating women specifically.

POint taken - tory not a good example at this time.

[FannyCann]

I'm a bit behind and have just started listening to episode 7. Every time I hear that nauseating voice telling a child how exciting it is that there are over 100 genders I want to do a full Violet Elizabeth Bott and sthcream and sthcream until I'm sick 🤢.

[LobsterNapkin]

This is such a tricky issue... if I were to employ someone (I have done before but currently don't) then my main criteria would be to have logical person capable of looking at facts and interpreting them (and they;d need to have good report writing skills and excellent customer service skills). I categorically would not wish to discriminate or breach the law, but equally I would find it incomprehensible if someone voted tory, believed in god or believed in stonewall and was cable of logically looking at facts.

So, Benjamin Disraeli, or Doris Day, or Marshal McLuhan wouldn't make the second interview?

Isn't it kind of manifest that neither being a Tory nor belief in god precludes logic or good writing skills?