14th October 'Nolan Investigates' podcast - Stonewall?

[Helleofabore]

This sounds interesting.

A special ‘Nolan Investigates’ podcast drops tomorrow afternoon on @BBCSounds. An 18 month investigation into the influence of a lobby group on public bodies throughout the UK. More details in the morning

It seems to be about Stonewall.

Anyone know more about it?

There is some chatter about it on Twitter.

twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1448052827088109568?s=21

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1448205588253618176?s=21

(Tweet from JCJ says:

Okay, at last, here it is.

The BBC Ulster documentary on the influence of Stonewall on public life in the UK.

Many GC women have been interviewed for this.

Let's take the lid off this thing shall we?

Let's answer a question about removing the word 'mother' from legislation and policy by holding up lesbians as a human shield and rambling on at great and confusing length about a female couple having a baby

Have known plenty of lesbian parents, myself included. Never yet met a couple who weren't perfectly clear and unbothered as to mentioning which of them was the biological mother. It's a fact, it's part of the family/children's history, no one has a problem with this! And the children perfectly happily both have names for both their parents, without confusion on which one gave birth to them.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Hurcum was wittering on about the necessity for puberty-blockers, and how awful it was to have to" go through the wrong puberty". I would be very interested to know what is the "right puberty" for "bi-gender, gender fluid, genderfuck, two-spirit, pansexual" etc etc etc" - especially when no-one can even DEFINE what these are

Recent publication that considers the ethical case for ongoing suppression of puberty:

Notini L, Earp BD, Gillam L, et alForever young? The ethics of ongoing puberty suppression for non-binary adultsJournal of Medical Ethics 2020;46:743-752.

jme.bmj.com/content/46/11/743.abstract

The commentaries in response are interesting.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing @EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

I was particular struck by the response from the psychoanalyst who pointed out that no one appeared to have explored why Phoenix wanted to live their life in a pre-pubertal state (family history, poss trauma etc)

do all those who survived episode 4.

*to

Ffs

My main takeaway from the interview with the mayor in episode 4 is how very, very boring these navel gazers are.

This is one reason why I have confidence in how the upcoming generations will deal with this. They'll be tolerant in understanding that these people need to be treated kindly, but also they need to be contained in their own safe spaces so that away from them everyone else can just get along with engaging in interesting and enjoyable ways.

The Stephen Nolan Show is on Radio 5 Live tonight from 10 pm

The day's main news stories, topical debate and interviews. Call 08085 909693 (calls are free from mobiles and landlines). Email: [email protected]

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0010gbm

I don't know if he intends covering this subject but I'm certainly going to call, if only to thank him and his team for the podcasts.

One way to keep the conversation flowing.

I wonder if we could rotate reception class kids to support their local police in being able to recognise sex on sight.

Borrow next door's dog. She is a rescue and has a strange-man-hate that would put even the most Rad of Fems to shame. At least we tend not to go in for actual Beano-style savaging of the trouser legs.

The Welsh government said its policy was in the "spirit of the law".

Anyone who has been engaged in legal argument knows that once you're reaching for that one you're in real trouble and unlikely to prevail unless you've got a friend on the bench.

I’d ask him ‘how did you not scream SEX it’s SEX you dimwit’. I’m listening to the fragrant Ben at the moment arguing for loos segregated on the basis of gender (not sex). The poor folks will have to sit with their legs crossed of they don’t get a loo they like. 🙄

Journalists and people in the media need to be trained that when their interviewer is talking about "gender", there has to be a quick diversion into clarifying whether they're talking about sex or about gender identity. Once that's done, the interview can continue in a way that will be more comprehensible to the audience.

Oooh 7. James Caspian

Episode 9: How close was Ofcom to Stonewall? is a cracker.

Ofcom are bullshitters.

I await with interest what stonewall’s response will be to all this. Atm (predicably) NK is ignoring if other than to make reference to it being transphobic

I haven't read this thread yet so someone has probably already made this point but I am listening to the podcasts at the moment and I am finding the interview with the non binary person interesting.

They don't feel like they are a man or a woman, they don't feel like they have a gender identity. They just feel like themselves.

So they define as agender non-binary.

Whereas I don't feel like a man or a woman. Just myself. I don't feel like I have a gender identity.

So I kind of assume gender identity is bullshit.

And accept that my biological sex (female ) is relevant to some things (usually stuff to do with my body and society's treatment of women) and not others (usually regressive gender stereotypes).

It is interesting because I thought I had quite a lot in common with them, as someone who is attracted to people of both sexes but with more of an attraction to personality than physical attributes.

I am sure there are micro labels for me in this brave new world. But I'm fine with woman or bisexual woman. I am gender non conforming, but I don't know why I would need to label myself that as I never assumed that most women conform to most gender stereotypes not least because they are contradictory.

When my youngest was born in 2012 I was concerned about how pink versus blue all the kids stuff was, and supported the let toys be toys and clothes be clothes campaigns when they came out. My son is a boy with long hair. That doesn't make him a girl.

I wonder if as we stereotype kids play, clothes and interests less, the perceived need for all these labels will fade. I hope things go that way rather than labelling kids who play with the "wrong" stuff as trans.

I wonder what all the guys I knew back in my grunge days would make of Hurcum's claim that dyeing one's hair green is a sign of being non-binary? Why does having colourful hair make someone not quite a man? It's so profoundly sexist. I'd love transactivists to be challenged on this. They seem to think they're the first men to experiment with their appearance, and are also ignorant of cultures where the rules of male presentation are completely different.

@WarriorN

Oooh 7. James Caspian

Cult.

Wonderful!

Btw, Sally Hines having a tantrum and no one is noticing.

It's interesting that to someone socialised into this gender identity stuff that feeling like you don't have one isn't evidence that it is wrong, it is evidence of another label.

No wonder there's a lot of people identifying as non-binary!

Benjamin Cohen made no sense on justifying the removal of the word mother from maternity policies by using lesbian couples as an example. The lesbians I know who have kids are happily called mothers by their kids. They'd be quite cross with BC for suggesting that it is somehow discrimatory or exclusive to call lesbian mothers mothers as if only straight women have a right to that word.

And it doesn't confuse the kids either. I'll never forget the charming little four-year-old girl at my son's birthday party who very happily introduced her two mummies to me. Zero confusion. No awkwardness.

But I guess it must make sense to a bloke who thinks only a small minority of women would object to erasing the word mother from our language. Especially in relation to policies or laws specifically for and about mothers. I don't know what goes on in the heads of these men that they think this is a credible, rational assumption.

So should he and his husband become parents, neither would be dad or daddy or the child’s father? That’s quite sad actually.

Just finished Owen the Mayor's first contribution.

Owen has made it absolutely crystal clear that it is all unmitigated nonsense.

Claims there is no meaning to the word male, and then uses the word male in context where Owen is actually relying on the meaning. 'Male to female, female to male, etc'.

Yet again, this process by which all words have two meanings.

One that is nonsense, but gets used as leverage whilst simultaneously it has the meaning that everyone relies on. Sometimes in the same sentence!

I'd also like someone to actually ask for a bloody example of behaviour that is non-binary. Let's get down to the nitty-gritty.

Is it wearing a dress with Y fronts?

Owen hinted that Owen had always had behaviour that did not fit into society's expectation of men. Let's bloody hear it. What was it? Cooking? Shagging people of the same sex?

I want to see how a massive ideology has grown around people actually accommodating society's expectations, by pretending that they only apply to everybody else. And the sexism and homophobia that underpins all of it.

Please, please, can a journalist ask the question what behaviour is it, explicitly, that means you can't display it until you have an identity to explain it.

Non-binary mayor is the gift that keeps on giving.

Owen is worried that if they are murdered because they are non binary, that if non binaryness isn't a protected characteristic then it won't be a hate crime. That discrimination at work won't be quantified.

Exactly Owen. If being a woman isn't recognised then how can we talk meaningfully talk about the discrimination and violence women face?

Also being recognised as a protected characteristic doesn't mean that stuff counts as hate crimes. Just ask women. If you can figure out which humans are women.

RipX4nutmeg's latest is excellent

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable

(I think that's the mayor in the pic? If not of similar Ilk)

(I think that's the mayor in the pic? If not of similar Ilk)

I believe that is indeed they.

[quote WarriorN]RipX4nutmeg's latest is excellent

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable[/quote]
Certainly is!

Someone might just have forwarded it to Nolan