14th October 'Nolan Investigates' podcast - Stonewall?

[Helleofabore]

This sounds interesting.

A special ‘Nolan Investigates’ podcast drops tomorrow afternoon on @BBCSounds. An 18 month investigation into the influence of a lobby group on public bodies throughout the UK. More details in the morning

It seems to be about Stonewall.

Anyone know more about it?

There is some chatter about it on Twitter.

twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1448052827088109568?s=21

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1448205588253618176?s=21

(Tweet from JCJ says:

Okay, at last, here it is.

The BBC Ulster documentary on the influence of Stonewall on public life in the UK.

Many GC women have been interviewed for this.

Let's take the lid off this thing shall we?

I've just got to the bit where someone has said a non-binary or gender-fluid employee might be unhappy with traditional dress codes. Loads of women are unhappy with workplace dress codes but nobody ever cares about that. The answer is to abolish sexist dress codes, not to make individuals feel that they have to opt out of reality in order to escape them. I hate this idea that any woman who doesn't identify out of womanhood is somehow happy with the way things are.

I've just got to the bit where someone has said a non-binary or gender-fluid employee might be unhappy with traditional dress codes. Loads of women are unhappy with workplace dress codes but nobody ever cares about that.

One of Magdalen Berns' best:

One of Nolan's tweets states that the intention behind the series of podcasts is to stimulate national discussion.

Do we think this will happen? Discussion of the issues or will it be LOJ'd and the discussion will be about the things that it isn't? From the comments on Twitter it seems to be the latter. E.g., investigating LGBA etc. as a hate group; BBC as a transphobic organisation for authorising and funding this series etc.

Ok so I have got to episode 9. It gets explosive! Ofcom basically censored a presenter on a local radio station saying he felt uncomfortable with his 6 year old daughter changing in an environment where they were segregated based on sex.

And they used that example of censorship to show to Stonewall so that they……could climb up their league table!!!!!

So Ofcom are not using internal HR points to climb up the Stonewall league table. They are using ACTUAL RULINGS.

We are being censored by Ofcom. This is a national scandal.

*weren’t based on sex

*weren’t segregated based on sex.

Sorry have to get that bit right.

One of Nolan's tweets states that the intention behind the series of podcasts is to stimulate national discussion.

It is.

The discussion has started in a fb teaching group I'm in.

It's a very necessary and overdue discussion.

We can stimulate that debate. If this is only available on GC FB then we can share it and watch the ripples.

Magdalen Berns said Be Brave.

I'm going to do that.

Long post but the below is a response from govt to petition asking for biological sex to be recorded in cases of VAWG

tldr: No we don’t, no we won’t and why are you asking us to examine people’s genitals to determine ‘biological sex (whatever that means)

So apparently govt don’t even know the definition of biological sex

The Government does not plan to require biological sex to be recorded across the criminal justice system in this way. Policy is being developed in certain areas of demographic recording.

Policy responsibility for managing suspects and offenders is split between the Home Office (role of police) and the Ministry of Justice (courts, prisons and probation).
Currently, the Home Office does not centrally mandate how an offender’s sex or gender identity must be recorded by police. It is for each individual police force to decide what information to record. However, Home Office officials are working with the police to promote a standardized approach to recording basic demographic characteristics of victims and suspects of crime.This should bring greater accuracy and consistency of the recording of sex and gender identity.

Any such changes to police recording should influence how Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) records offenders, since magistrates and Crown Courts use data supplied by the police.
Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service (HMPPS) record the legally recognised gender of prisoners (or best available evidence where this is not known). The gender a prisoner identifies as is recorded in addition to the legally recognised gender, where this is different, which makes it clear that this is not the person’s legally recognised gender.

Officials have noted that ‘biological sex’ has not been defined in the petition. If ‘biological sex’ is defined in terms of anatomy, or chromosomes, then there would be both ethical and logistical challenges for the police or the HMPPS in determining this for every arrested suspect or prisoner. For instance, it would not be appropriate for the police or HMPPS to physically examine every suspect/prisoner in order to determine ‘biological sex’ if it had one of these meanings.
Accordingly, there are no plans for the police or HMPPS to record the biological sex of prisoners.

Assuming that ‘biological sex’ is defined as the sex a person is assigned at birth, HMPPS’s position is as follows. Most people’s legal gender will remain the same as their sex as recorded at birth throughout their lives. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 allows transgender people who have (or have had) gender dysphoria, and intend to live in their acquired gender for the rest of their life, to change their legal gender.
They can do this by obtaining a gender recognition certificate (GRC), which is in effect a replacement birth certificate. Section 9 of the Act states that:

“Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).”

Where a prisoner has a GRC, HMPPS will continue to record their legal gender, in line with the law. HMPPS will continue to manage prisoners with GRCs according to the Ministry of Justice (MoJ) and HMPPS policy framework: ‘The Care and Management of Individuals who are Transgender’, which is available at:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863610/transgender-pf.pdf.

I was mulling over that email yesterday @Sacreblue
Excellent summary.

Jesus.

Biological sex, a fact which can be observed by newborn infants, is in quote marks?

Fucking hell. This is scary.

My main takeaway from the interview with the mayor in episode 4 is how very, very boring these navel gazers are. One gets a sense there is nothing else they talk about.
I am thankful I don't have to mark any of his essays, if I was his tutor I might tell him the word limit is 500 when everyone else is doing 1500.

I wonder if we could rotate reception class kids to support their local police in being able to recognise sex on sight. We could probably rota some across to the home office too if things have got that bad in there that they can't tell any more.

Officials have noted that ‘biological sex’ has not been defined in the petition.

Had sex been used without the modifier, of course, it would have led to follow-ups asking for clarity about a disingenous response that indicates that sex and gender are interchangeable. It was a Catch-22 and there was never going to be an adequate reply from the govt.

Useful in its own way, of course. And an example of how captured govt. and MoJ are.

Well it's certainly an argument against self-id. The prison system is incapable of knowing a person is male once they have a GRC? (They clearly are capable as they have a facility specially for prisoners with a GRC that are deemed too dangerous to be housed with women.)

@FannyCann

My main takeaway from the interview with the mayor in episode 4 is how very, very boring these navel gazers are. One gets a sense there is nothing else they talk about. I am thankful I don't have to mark any of his essays, if I was his tutor I might tell him the word limit is 500 when everyone else is doing 1500.

Like my stoner friend. He is lovely . But only talks about cannabis and the ancient Celts. Still at least it's not all about him!

Bens surrogacy journey... no baby on the way though. Well, I guess there’s some element missing - would that be a ‘woman’?

‘It is said’ that women don’t want to have the word mother removed? He wants a poll to ‘prove’ we don’t want this? Blimey.

Another article, by David Thompson again.

The Welsh government has been accused of being "dictated to" by an LGBT charity.

Labour MP Tonia Antoniazzi said the government promoted an "ideological culture" by adopting Stonewall's interpretation of the Equality Act.

Her comments were in response to a BBC investigation which revealed the Welsh government had adopted Stonewall's interpretation of equality law.

The Welsh government said its policy was in the "spirit of the law".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58913311

The Welsh government said its policy was in the "spirit of the law".

Wonder how the police would respond to that excuse for speeding? Or the council for sending only half of your council tax? Or ignoring planning regs?

@KittenKong

Bens surrogacy journey... no baby on the way though. Well, I guess there’s some element missing - would that be a ‘woman’?

I just listened to that bit and was rolling my eyes at Ben's very desperate 'MY LESBIAN FRIEND' smokescreen. Let's answer a question about removing the word 'mother' from legislation and policy by holding up lesbians as a human shield and rambling on at great and confusing length about a female couple having a baby, hoping no one notices the point at issue is actually several miles in the other direction. It reminded me of a cornered cartoon villain upending a crate of apples and hoping the pursuing police all fall over on them.

I've just got through episode 4. OH certainly managed to speak for a long time without really saying anything.

Anyway, I've realised I am the worst parent in the world. DS has an inherited genetic disorder, which means amongst other things that he is deaf and has lots of skeletal issues. This genetic disorder only affects males.

If only I had realised once he was born that he had obviously been born into the wrong body. I should have said hang on, DS2 is clearly a girl! And this genetic disorder doesn't affect girls! And hey presto, DS2 would have been cured of his disabilities. Because it's all about the feelz, isn't it, biological sex being irrelevant these days

Yes I didn’t get the point why lesbians would object to the pregnant one being called mother. They are the mother biologically but as kids don’t usually called their mothers “mother” anyway usually mum or mummy or mama or whatever I am sure the lesbian couple can figure out what the child calls each parent between them.
And on Mother’s Day they both get a card and bunch of flowers. Sounds lovely!

Absolutely! Two mothers: brilliant!

No mother at all, nope - didn't happen, you simply don't have one and never did: problematic. In many, many ways.

I've just finished episode 4 as well.

Now I'm off to the shops to buy a vast amount of alcohol. The best thing about #4 is at least it's short.