AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

[jeaux90]

No. The TRAs are so aggressive on language of you concede to use Cis woman they will use Woman.

We are not a subset of our own sex.
They are transwomen at best, I use males with special identities.

[ChaToilLeam]

#NoThankYou

[godmum56]

@WoodchipNightmares

Treading carefully as a man in this debate, but this is an interesting point. If cis does mean that, then isn’t it much less of a loaded term? Just a qualifier, and in the same way as “white” or “able bodied”.

You wouldn’t say the word woman automatically means able bodied, so no need for a qualifier (where relevant in the context)?

"Cis" literally does just mean someone who identifies with the sex they were born as. The term can be used as a prefix to both "man" and "woman". I am a cis woman, my DP is a cis man etc. etc.

In most conversations "woman" suffices, as the nuances of sex and gender are irrelevant, but in conversations relating to sex and gender, it's often beneficial to have a term that identifies females who identify as women. Many people (whether those on this thread like it or not) will use women as an overarching term to include both cis women and transwomen.

Where the nature of the conversation means a distinction is required (smear tests, for instance), the alternative language can otherwise get very clunky ("non-trans woman" being one of the less appealing, along with "cervix owners", the latter of which seems a little reductionist).

^^ this. I think that "cis" is a useful word ...rather like there was no need for a word for analogue watches until there was a difference between them and digital watches.

[DoesHePlayTheFiddle]

I am a woman. I don't need to qualify that with 'cis' or anything else. Everyone knows what a woman is, even those who try to pretend they don't.

As an adult human female I reject the woke twaw nonsense, no matter from which source it emanates. I want a clear, honest, safe society for my adult (woke!) child and my ( indoctrinated) grandchild.

[tempester28]

Slippery slope

[yungnsexy]

@SoyLatte2Shots

YANBU. I'm a cis woman. I have friends who are women but are biologically male. I have friends who are biologically female and identify as women. They're both women.

Nobody HAS to use cis if they don't feel it represents them, but railing against a useful term that nobody is forcing you at gunpoint to use is a bit silly tbh. You'd think those who oppose the idea that trans women are women would be pleased to have a term that sets them apart as being biologically female women.

Nobody HAS to use it to describe themselves but I don't want anyone else using it to describe me. Same way your trans friends don't want to be called a man.

How is one unreasonable and not the other

[DisappearingGirl]

I totally get where you are coming from OP. At the moment, whether we like it or not (I don't), the word "woman" is being used both to mean "those of female sex" and "those with gender identity of woman". This is causing problems as we really need to be able to differentiate between these things.

However I'm not sure "cis" is the answer as people already have a real dislike to it as shown on this thread - and to be fair it has frequently been used in a derogatory way.

For me, if "cis" simply meant "not trans" I'd be fairly happy with being referred to as cis where clarification is needed. But if "cis" means "identifies with feminine stereotypes" then I'm not so happy with it.

[PastMyBestBeforeDate]

No thanks.
Anyway, the superstraight stuff was basically what you're after.

[MrsRobinsonsHandprints]

@GreenWhiteViolet

YABU. 'Cis' women are women who have a gender identity which matches their sex.

I do not have a gender identity. I experience gender as the means of my oppression as a woman, and so I do not identify with it. I reject and oppose it.

If you're a woman with a feminine gender identity then by all means call yourself 'cis' - but most of us don't agree with the ideology and so using its terms confuses things.

We used to say 'women-born-women' in certain feminist circles years ago for what you're suggesting - not exactly GC because it suggests there are women-born-men, but on balance it's less offensive than 'cis'.

Agree. I am a women. I have no gender identity, so I am not a cis woman.

[VestaTilley]

YABU I’m afraid - I hate it. It “others” us from our own sex and implies everyone has a gender identity (we don’t) and that if you say you’re a cis-women you’re happy being in the gendered box society put you in.

It’s regressive bollocks and needs stamping out.

[ConstanceGracy]

Yabu

[DancesWithTortoises]

YABVU

Don't be silly.

[Bizawit]

however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male

Also, out of curiosity - there are actually a fair few cis women who are genetically male. Do they fall under the umbrella of your sexual preference as well?

[IReallyCantThinkOfAnything]

Oh FFS, please give it a rest with the cis crap…. No way, not ever will I accept that.

[BigWoollyJumpers]

@SoupDragon

What about the examples a pp just gave you : “white woman”, “able bodied woman” , “straight woman” etc. Or do you think these “qualifiers” are not required either?

Those aren't the same at all. The only necessary qualifier here is "trans" where appropriate.

Absolutely. Women first, then a differentiation if that person wants it. Their decision, no-one elses.

Personally I have never called anyone a white woman, or able bodied woman, or straight woman. They are all women, I don't care if they are otherwise different. They are essentially all women. How many sodding labels must we be saddled with. Where does it end.

Hello, let me introduce you to my cis woman black disabled friend...... no, let me introduce you to my friend, her name is Sarah.

[Comedycook]

there are actually a fair few cis women who are genetically male

What does this mean?

[Bizawit]

@Comedycook

there are actually a fair few cis women who are genetically male

What does this mean?

Exactly what it says.

[Waitwhat23]

The word woman (to refer to a female) is 'transphobic' - language is being changed to be more 'inclusive' using terms like bodies with vaginas (The Lancet) as one of many examples. Transwomen on the other hand are referred to as women.

The word female is apparently 'transphobic' - FGM survivors and campaigners Jana Cornel and Hibo Wedere have been accused of not being 'inclusive' enough in their language.

Cis and cisgender are terms which are
being imposed on women (often without their consent) while women are simultaneously being told that not respecting other people's stated preferred pronouns is an act of hate.

None of this happening to men though. You don't hear 'bodies with penises' or see viagra marketed to 'those who ejaculate'.

If we willingly capitulate on 'cis' it means we are giving away the language we use to refer to ourselves.

[sanluca]

No

[godmum56]

@DisappearingGirl

I totally get where you are coming from OP. At the moment, whether we like it or not (I don't), the word "woman" is being used both to mean "those of female sex" and "those with gender identity of woman". This is causing problems as we really need to be able to differentiate between these things.

However I'm not sure "cis" is the answer as people already have a real dislike to it as shown on this thread - and to be fair it has frequently been used in a derogatory way.

For me, if "cis" simply meant "not trans" I'd be fairly happy with being referred to as cis where clarification is needed. But if "cis" means "identifies with feminine stereotypes" then I'm not so happy with it.

That tends to be a problem that I have as a cis woman....because I have never been anything else, I genuinely do not know what "feeling like a woman" feels like. I have never ever gone along with whatever gender stereotypes that were the norm at the time. I know what feeling like me feels like and I know that I am cis gendered but what I feel like may be nothing like what another cis gendered female feels like....so how can someone who wishes to transition know?
I do think, though, that to use this kind of "self selecting" thread or similar ones as an indication that "people" dislike the term is illogical. Some people certainly do but some people dislike various things from cabbage to the Labour party and it doesn't mean that people in general do.

[sanluca]

Sorry that should be YABVU

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

I am woman. Not cis. Hear me ROAR!!!!!

[godmum56]

@Waitwhat23

The word woman (to refer to a female) is 'transphobic' - language is being changed to be more 'inclusive' using terms like bodies with vaginas (The Lancet) as one of many examples. Transwomen on the other hand are referred to as women.

The word female is apparently 'transphobic' - FGM survivors and campaigners Jana Cornel and Hibo Wedere have been accused of not being 'inclusive' enough in their language.

Cis and cisgender are terms which are
being imposed on women (often without their consent) while women are simultaneously being told that not respecting other people's stated preferred pronouns is an act of hate.

None of this happening to men though. You don't hear 'bodies with penises' or see viagra marketed to 'those who ejaculate'.

If we willingly capitulate on 'cis' it means we are giving away the language we use to refer to ourselves.

"cis" applies to men too. all it means is people who identify with the gender that they were identified as at birth.

[godmum56]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I am woman. Not cis. Hear me ROAR!!!!!

so were you not born a woman?

[JaneJeffer]

YABU

we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it
NEVER going to happen