AIBU to actually be starting to like the term cis?

[newnameday]

Hopefully this is allowed. Not bashing anyone.

I hated the term cis however this morning it hit me that we may be better embracing it if we can't eradicate it.

We have TWAW etc. But in the next however many years, we may find it easier, for example you're on a dating site "cis woman seeking cis man" therefore you will (hopefully) link with genetically male partners. Rather than "seeking a man" and you may possibly end up with a trans man. Again, no judgement or bashing, however I only ever wanted to be with someone who was genetically male, it's just my preference and I should be able to state this in a simple way.

So you would be able to request a man (if happy with cis or trans man) or woman, a cis man/woman and the subsections of lesbian or gay.

Prepared to be told IABU and sure that someone will likely be able to point out why this is bad. I'm not wanting this to be a bashing thread. I'm just starting to think the term may become useful in the not-too-distant future.

Also prepared this may end up deleted.

[Willyoujustbequiet]

Woman is sufficient

CIS is offensive

[Notebooksarefabulous]

Im not CIS. Im a woman. A cervix haver, vagina haver.
Woman. noun. adult human female.

[siestalady]

@HandsOffMyRights

YABVU.

You may choose to cut your cloth to suit this season's fashion, but the rest of us have integrity and self worth, and you most certainly do not speak for me or the majority of women - Adult Human Females.

this

[newnameday]

A tangent that has also got me flummoxed, if you don't mind.

I have a friend who has stated they are non-binary and wants to be referred to as they or he. They regularly like being mistaken for a man, and are offended if someone refers to them as a woman.

However will not use the male toilets.

So how come trans women want to use female toilets as they "are women" as do trans men as they are genetically female, and why do we have to allow both these? Surely there should be one rule for all and not being able to pick and choose?

[WeeBisom]

I do see your point, but my concern is that cis will just be regarded as another barrier and exclusionary term. I’ve dated women online and it is really frowned upon to say you are seeking “cis women” only. And there’s also a growing trend of trans women who insist that they too are biologically female and hence cis - India willoughby and the host of philosophy tube come to mind. I suspect that if women enthusiastically began referring to themselves as cis women and claiming rights on that basis we would soon see trans women claiming en masse that they too are cis and entitled to whatever women are asking for. I don’t think we can win this language game.

[BigWoollyJumpers]

I have friends who are women but are biologically male

I don't understand why can't they therefore cannot identify as "trans women". If I am to be pigeonholed as a "cis" women, then they can be similarly labeled as what they are. Equality for all eh?

[SoyLatte2Shots]

@newnameday

A tangent that has also got me flummoxed, if you don't mind.

I have a friend who has stated they are non-binary and wants to be referred to as they or he. They regularly like being mistaken for a man, and are offended if someone refers to them as a woman.

However will not use the male toilets.

So how come trans women want to use female toilets as they "are women" as do trans men as they are genetically female, and why do we have to allow both these? Surely there should be one rule for all and not being able to pick and choose?

They might feel uncomfortable in male toilets, if they're at risk of being identified by others as a woman.

You've shown your true intentions with this comment though, so I'll pop off and leave you to it until this is moved/deleted. Yawn. Can't say I've ever been this fixated on the genitals of the person in the next toilet cubicle to me as you seem to be.

[RedToothBrush]

Why aren't women allowed to define themselves?
Why must we use a term that serves men not women?
It is a deeply sexist term that ingrains and encourages institutional sexism, and pays lip service to discrimination and harms done to women on the basis of their sex not gender.
It suggests that women who do not transition have accepted and are happy with gender stereotypes which restrict their life opportunities and should accept being treated accordingly.

Its a way to undermine and gaslight the womens' right's movement - to trivalise it and to make out as if women have full equality which we know not to be true.

[Marguerite2000]

I'm not going to embrace anything that is enforced on me by MRAs.
I'm never going to use the word 'cis'. Women and trans women are perfectly adequate words that already exist, and distinguishs between women, and men who identify themselves as women.
While we're on the subject, I'm also never going to use terms such as - pregnant people, birthing parent, chestfeeding, people who menstruate, bodies with vaginas, or any other mysoginistic term that a small minority is attempting to coerce us into using.
Of course you're free to refer to yourself as 'cis' but I strongly suggest you don't use it to refer to anyone else, certainly not on this forum.

[Canigooutyet]

How many men identify as cis man?
If I matched with someone who was trans male and failed to identify themselves as transman I wouldn't continue the date. I shouldn't have to put letters in front of woman because I am happy with who I am. I'm not , trans, or any other gendered title. I am woman/female.

[newnameday]

@HandsOffMyRights

YABVU.

You may choose to cut your cloth to suit this season's fashion, but the rest of us have integrity and self worth, and you most certainly do not speak for me or the majority of women - Adult Human Females.

Believe me, I fully agree with this. I just feel we're losing in some ways and was wondering if taking control of cis and using to our advantage would help us. As a trans woman will say they are a woman, but cannot state they are a cis woman. This would be safe for only us!

As I've said, I'm happy to agree I'm BU, it was just a fleeting thought I had based on another thread I was reading (nail varnish husband)

[SoyLatte2Shots]

@BigWoollyJumpers

I have friends who are women but are biologically male

I don't understand why can't they therefore cannot identify as "trans women". If I am to be pigeonholed as a "cis" women, then they can be similarly labeled as what they are. Equality for all eh?

They can and do. Some prefer to be called a transwoman, some prefer to be called a woman. There isn't a blanket rule bestowed upon all trans women. Thankfully. Some transwomen feel strongly that being trans is part of their identity. Others feel that while they're a transwoman, the trans prefix is meaningless to them, they feel they are women and continually referencing the trans aspect of their womanhood takes away from the reality that they are women.

I'm done with the thread anyway as it's clear what OP intended it to be, but hope that answer helps.

[soapboxqueen]

Even using some definitions of 'cis' no gay men, lesbians or feminists would qualify so you'd still not be including all of the people you wanted to.

Besides, there are trans people who feel that once they've transitioned and are comfortable, they are themselves cis so you aren't going to win.

[MarthaJonesPhone]

Nope I'm a woman, nothing else needs to be added. There are only two sexes, female and male. There are no sub sections of the sexes.

[newnameday]

@WeeBisom

I do see your point, but my concern is that cis will just be regarded as another barrier and exclusionary term. I’ve dated women online and it is really frowned upon to say you are seeking “cis women” only. And there’s also a growing trend of trans women who insist that they too are biologically female and hence cis - India willoughby and the host of philosophy tube come to mind. I suspect that if women enthusiastically began referring to themselves as cis women and claiming rights on that basis we would soon see trans women claiming en masse that they too are cis and entitled to whatever women are asking for. I don’t think we can win this language game.

Seriously? The mind boggles.

[generalh]

I am not cis...I am just woman

[HandsOffMyRights]

Forcing the prefix 'cis' upon women is a hostile takeover of language that amounts to a denial of the existence of natal females. The female sex has been appropriated without consent.

Use of 'cis' is an act of dominance. Addition of the prefix 'cis' to woman allows men to imply that woman is the oppressor class. This is clearly false, but a useful tool for some.
This is the reason why the term 'cis' man is almost never seen. This is also the reason why no woman however reasonable, is allowed to reject the term.

[Poetnojo]

You'd think those who oppose the idea that trans women are women would be pleased to have a term that sets them apart as being biologically female women.

We do, that word is Woman

[GreenWhiteViolet]

YABU. 'Cis' women are women who have a gender identity which matches their sex.

I do not have a gender identity. I experience gender as the means of my oppression as a woman, and so I do not identify with it. I reject and oppose it.

If you're a woman with a feminine gender identity then by all means call yourself 'cis' - but most of us don't agree with the ideology and so using its terms confuses things.

We used to say 'women-born-women' in certain feminist circles years ago for what you're suggesting - not exactly GC because it suggests there are women-born-men, but on balance it's less offensive than 'cis'.

[HandsOffMyRights]

'Cis' does not mean 'born as' it means 'on the same side as' and relates to physical location. It is a term that has been misappropriated to apply to anyone who is not transgender. It is used in molecular chemistry and geography and has no relationship with humanity.

[newnameday]

@Marguerite2000

I'm not going to embrace anything that is enforced on me by MRAs.
I'm never going to use the word 'cis'. Women and trans women are perfectly adequate words that already exist, and distinguishs between women, and men who identify themselves as women.
While we're on the subject, I'm also never going to use terms such as - pregnant people, birthing parent, chestfeeding, people who menstruate, bodies with vaginas, or any other mysoginistic term that a small minority is attempting to coerce us into using.
Of course you're free to refer to yourself as 'cis' but I strongly suggest you don't use it to refer to anyone else, certainly not on this forum.

I certainly do not agree with the terms stated. Women have periods and give birth. I will never change my stance on these things.
I also agree, I wouldn't refer to anyone (nor myself, in everyday life) as cis. It was just a "I wonder if..." moment

[lunar1]

I'll call anyone whatever they ask me to call them, I expect the same treatment in return, which is to be referred to as a woman, no additions.

Referring to people as they wish doesn't need to be a hardship for anyone.

Infringing on sex based rights is a completely different matter, female only space and rights exist for a reason and can't be altered because of the way an individual perceives themselves.

[TooWicked]

Women and trans women works just fine for me thanks.

If anyone refers to “women” I assume they mean the adult human female type.

If they refer to “trans women” I assume they mean the adult human male type.

[BillMasen]

@WoodchipNightmares

Personally I find it a useful shorthand for someone who identifies with the sex they were born as.

I've no issues with being called a cis woman - any more than I have with being called a white woman, straight woman, Liverpudlian woman, able bodied woman.

Treading carefully as a man in this debate, but this is an interesting point. If cis does mean that, then isn’t it much less of a loaded term? Just a qualifier, and in the same way as “white” or “able bodied”.

You wouldn’t say the word woman automatically means able bodied, so no need for a qualifier (where relevant in the context)?

[LarryTheLurker]

When you allow your opponents to control the language of discourse you have already started to lose.

XX chromosomes, grown to adulthood = woman.

Other people may choose to describe themselves as such and the rest of us can decide for ourselves if we are willing to agree.

I'm not.