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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

To Feel Really Saddened That DD's School can't say Daughter or Girl

326 replies

Memeapple · 28/09/2021 08:45

I went to a my DD's high performing Central London Girls school last night for an introduction to year 8 where they mainly talked about attendance.

We then had a talk by the form tutor in the classroom. I noticed that during the entire form tutor chat she was referring to the girls as children. This wasn't an accident because at one point she nearly said daughters but stopped herself. I've noticed my daughter talking about the girls in her class as "people". I've also seen her gender PHSE work from year 7 which says if you misgender someone it is an act of violence. Hmm what about obliteration of gender?

I am profoundly dismayed by this and feel that the school is complicit in the stripping of girls/women's identities. How can "inclusivity" mean that the females have no identity whatsoever?

Am finding this whole situation really really disconcerting. Something nefarious has penetrated the school system. How can fundamental biological/physiological fact be washed away by "lived experience".

OP posts:
dworky · 28/09/2021 11:14

@FangsForTheMemory

Oh give the anti-trans stuff a rest!
Oh, the irony!
ShrillSiren · 28/09/2021 11:14

@Imcatmum

Happy for gender to be erased. Prefer my 2 sons and 2 daughters to just be treated as people and not as boys or girls.
So you'd be happy with mixed-sex everything? Toilets, changing rooms, sports, refuges, prisons, hospital wards? You can't see why it might be useful to be able to separate certain things like sex?
Whatwouldscullydo · 28/09/2021 11:16

Prefer my 2 sons and 2 daughters to just be treated as people and not as boys or girls

What do you mean by this exactly?

Treating people exactly the same is often the most discriminatory thing you can do.

If I served your kids in a shop then it of course makes no difference

If however a dr or teacher or sports coach etc erased sex then when your sporty daughter failed to earn a spot on the foot ball team because even the mediocre boys were faster than she was even if she was more skilled, then you wouod end up with team just made up of boys.

If however there was a girls team your dd would stand a relaly good chance of making the team.

Likewise if your son alongside other boys were struggling with maths but the teachers decided the grade average if the class was ready fine as the girls were all flying ahead then no ones seen your son struggle and therfore there were no catch up.classes fir the boys.

How is that a benefit

Pinotnoirandcheese · 28/09/2021 11:16

I just don’t get this. Why can’t girls be allowed to be whatever they want and express themselves however they want? And still be proud to be girls?

It seems that people are trying to say that if you don’t want to be traditionally girly (and who on Earth would want that these days), you are not a girl anymore. You are…non binary…or whatever.

All this speak seems to be aimed at trying to fit children into stereotypes and declare anyone not fitting the stereotypes “not a girl” or “not a boy”.

I think it is madness.

ShrillSiren · 28/09/2021 11:16

@LukeEvansWife

I hate this kind of thing - but if only there were a specific board on MN to discuss it....
Who's holding a gun to your head to force you to read and reply to every thread? I can't stand parking threads, so instead of trying to change other people, I scroll on by. Maybe you should try it?
FlowerArranger · 28/09/2021 11:19

@CatsArePeople

Our daughters are being educated not to be women. It's really very seismic. Most of us grew up very secure with our sex/gender. We don't know how this experiment will end.

This!
There can't be no more women's right or freedom for women, if we are just "bodies" or some sort of sexless "persons" and womanhood is just a feeling in a man's head.

And, as a PP said, It's women and girls who are being dehumanised and erased, and this is not happening to men.

If we don't fight this NOW, we - and future generations of women and girls - will regret it.

Viviennemary · 28/09/2021 11:20

You need to find something more important to fret about.

jeaux90 · 28/09/2021 11:23

Fight back. It's a battle we all need to stand up for. My DD12 is also at an all girls school and they are referred to by their sex. Girls or young women etc.

This is absolutely crucial to win the war language. You will be told not to fret, give it a rest etc. Don't.

We need to speak clearly and confidently about what we know to be true.

Queer theory and the erasure of sex has no place in education of our girls, we can teach tolerance and inclusion yes.

TeachesOfPeaches · 28/09/2021 11:24

Let's come up with some neutral words for men:

  • penis wavers
  • scrotum poles
  • sperm donors
  • testicle havers
  • egg fertilisers
Skysblue · 28/09/2021 11:25

Erased.

Write to the Department of Education and complain about the psychological harm being done to girls. If enough parents do this, they will make changes in the guidance given to schools. They already have told schools they’re not allowed to teach nonsense about it being possible to be born in wrong body.

That’s where you can have impact. Write to the Department of education and to schools.

Whatwouldscullydo · 28/09/2021 11:25

You need to find something more important to fret about

I assume you said the same thing to stonewall and the school who paid fir training etc ?

Ita simultaneously so important that it's worth spending tnosamds of pounds a year on but so unimportant larebta shouldn't waste time thinking about it.

Which is it?

timeisnotaline · 28/09/2021 11:25

@Yoursaintlyglowofconcern

Maybe in some circumstances such as learning and working it is more helpful to refer to ourselves as people, rather than females? Maybe sometimes it could be unhelpful to keep reminding us of our gender or sex?

TalkingintheDark Tue 05-Jan-21 14:05:10
There have been studies done that show that women themselves, when reminded beforehand that they are female, perform less well on tests in traditionally male dominated areas than they do if they are not reminded.

EndemicPanda Wed 06-Jan-21 01:03:36
Just reminding us that we are women seems to bring up all the negative crap that we have been exposed to in our lives about women's abilities etc., even if it is meant to be done in a positive way.

Girls schools work really hard at countering that! They can’t do that without saying women. They should learn to celebrate achievement while being female to own that. Mine did. I mean, take the assumption many girls have that girls are bad at maths. I do not want girls to be taught that don’t worry a being a girl, people can do maths, even when they are girls. I want them to be told girls are fucking fabulous at maths, and you should know that you’re fabulous whether or not men recognise it. Woman with a maths degree here, and that’s what I’m going to tell all my children.
JudgeJ · 28/09/2021 11:26

And yes - please do give it a rest. Your child is not being harmed by being referred to as a person.

Nor is SHE being harmed by being referred to as a GIRL, maybe SHE is being more harmed by being denied being referred to as SHE wishes.

herecomesthsun · 28/09/2021 11:28

@TeachesOfPeaches

Let's come up with some neutral words for men:
  • penis wavers
  • scrotum poles
  • sperm donors
  • testicle havers
  • egg fertilisers
Ah but apparently some women are testicle havers Wink
Clarice99 · 28/09/2021 11:28

@Helleofabore

So luna. Are you in education for young people?
I bloody hope not!
Helleofabore · 28/09/2021 11:29

Happy for gender to be erased. Prefer my 2 sons and 2 daughters to just be treated as people and not as boys or girls

Are you happy to have the removal of single sex toilets in schools too? What about where sex actually matters?

Like encouraging girls to overcome the sexist discrimination they have already encountered about participating in STEM. I am still trying to undo the peer instilled stereotypes my own teen has, such as Maths is for boys.

If the girls can’t be recognised to be targeted for these programs, how does that help.

There are certain times when it is important to acknowledge sex and times when it is not.

Clarice99 · 28/09/2021 11:30

@LukeEvansWife

I hate this kind of thing - but if only there were a specific board on MN to discuss it....
Don't read it then. The solution is simple.
Viviennemary · 28/09/2021 11:31

I don't approve of all girls schools. Its segregation.

Clarice99 · 28/09/2021 11:35

@Imcatmum

Happy for gender to be erased. Prefer my 2 sons and 2 daughters to just be treated as people and not as boys or girls.
It's sex, not gender.

Sex cannot be erased. And sex matters.

It's fine to not apply gender stereotypes for your sons and daughters; however, their biological sex will still stand and cannot be changed.

EdgeOfACoin · 28/09/2021 11:35

Ah, this has got moved to the Naughty Corner.

notanothertakeaway · 28/09/2021 11:36

@Lovemusic33

I do agree with you OP, it feels like the world gone crazy when people are scared to address kids by their gender just incase they identify as something else. They are ‘girls’ or ‘young women’.

As someone who’s pretty open minded and someone who often wears clothes from the men’s section or ‘non binary clothing’ I still find it hard to address people as not by their sex. I guess if I was a teenager now I would be classed as non binary due to how I present myself but I am 100% female and proud to be a strong women. Why are we not raising our children to be who they want to be without having to label it?

@Lovemusic33

I agree with you

As a teenager, I wore trousers all the time, didn't like make up, felt more comfortable with female friends than teenage boys. It didn't mean I was non-binary / trans / whatever

Whatwouldscullydo · 28/09/2021 11:37

I don't approve of all girls schools. Its segregation

Surely the answer then is to try and keep girls safer in co Ed? Then latest wouldn't pick an all girls school?

More productive than just trying to remove the language that gives away the fact its a girls school so no one asks questions as to why they are so popular surely?

Whatwouldscullydo · 28/09/2021 11:37

Parents

NecessaryScene · 28/09/2021 11:37

if only there were a specific board on MN to discuss it....

If only this thing didn't have a wide enough impact that it keeps coming up in all sorts of areas...

YetAnotherSpartacus · 28/09/2021 11:37

Happy for gender to be erased

I am too. I'm happy for girls to be told that they should be strong, powerful, assertive and not live their lives for men and all of those things.

I'm not happy for sex to be erased though because it is a fallacy that it can be.