To Feel Really Saddened That DD's School can't say Daughter or Girl

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I went to a my DD's high performing Central London Girls school last night for an introduction to year 8 where they mainly talked about attendance.

We then had a talk by the form tutor in the classroom. I noticed that during the entire form tutor chat she was referring to the girls as children. This wasn't an accident because at one point she nearly said daughters but stopped herself. I've noticed my daughter talking about the girls in her class as "people". I've also seen her gender PHSE work from year 7 which says if you misgender someone it is an act of violence. Hmm what about obliteration of gender?

I am profoundly dismayed by this and feel that the school is complicit in the stripping of girls/women's identities. How can "inclusivity" mean that the females have no identity whatsoever?

Am finding this whole situation really really disconcerting. Something nefarious has penetrated the school system. How can fundamental biological/physiological fact be washed away by "lived experience".

To be fair I don't know if the child is trans, nobody on here knows the child is trans. My point was it didn't seem to worry the other children if a girl was attending a boys school or if it was a boy who was transitioning

So? The whole point is adults set the boundaries until children grow up and learn to set their own.

It wouldn't bother children if you gave them jelly and ice cream fir dinner every day. But you don't do that because as an adult you know that would make them.fat, give them rotten teeth and leave them malnourished.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Here ancient

You are very trusting. The truth is you absolutely cannot be sure safeguarding is being upheld.

I know the school and I am sure.

@Whatwouldscullydo

To be fair I don't know if the child is trans, nobody on here knows the child is trans. My point was it didn't seem to worry the other children if a girl was attending a boys school or if it was a boy who was transitioning

So? The whole point is adults set the boundaries until children grow up and learn to set their own.

It wouldn't bother children if you gave them jelly and ice cream fir dinner every day. But you don't do that because as an adult you know that would make them.fat, give them rotten teeth and leave them malnourished.

It wasn't my child you know. Someone made a comment about boys schools and I was commenting on something I saw. I didn't say if I approved or not and it wasn't for me to set boundaries. It was just something I observed and for all I know the school had accepted a female student for some reason, they do take girls in the sixth form but this was definitely not a sixth former.

The school was for 11 to 18 year old, I don't think they'd want jelly and ice cream every day, my GS would prefer steak and chips, unfortunately the school doesn't offer either option.

So it's a girls school where the mention of the word Girl/s will land you in the Headteacher's office being told off?!

No disrespect intended here, but I'm genuinely curious what would happen if one of the students became trans-male (or whatever the politically correct term is.....)? Would the school say that they had to leave? If so, I guarantee that the student/their parents would be up in arms and saying "But, but, they are a girl!!!"

Agreed on the point about daughter but this goes much further. They stopped using girls/women. If the issue is about girls/women maybe you could ask MN to change the title and take daughter out. It would be a much more straightforward discussion.

@gladis665

Can someone restart the threat in AIBU?? and keep restarting it!

fucking hell, they'll be renaming the site soon.

I think BirthingBodiesNet has quite a ring to it, don't you?

@ancientgran

Agreed on the point about daughter but this goes much further. They stopped using girls/women. If the issue is about girls/women maybe you could ask MN to change the title and take daughter out. It would be a much more straightforward discussion.

This isn't just about my daughter. It's about what's happening to girls everywhere. The school used to champion girls and now they don't even exist. Meanwhile numbers of girls at gender dysphoria clinics rocket. Apparently there was supposed to be an investigation into the causes. There needs to be an investigation right now before we actually end up with no girls at all because they've sliced their breasts off and emptied their abdomens of offensive female viscera.

I am glad you can see my point but it is a shame you brought daughter into it because as I said the discussion would be much more straightforward if you focused on your real issue. It is time schools did stop using son/daughter/mother/father as there are many examples of when that is not appropriate and can be downright upsetting.

@ancientgran

I am glad you can see my point but it is a shame you brought daughter into it because as I said the discussion would be much more straightforward if you focused on your real issue. It is time schools did stop using son/daughter/mother/father as there are many examples of when that is not appropriate and can be downright upsetting.

Daughter is a side issue. Girl is the important one.

The school has erased all mention of girls.

Apologies as I haven't yet managed to RTFT

Isn't this an expensive fee-paying London school? Can't parents complain? There has to be a substantial majority against all of this, surely?

State comprehensive school, actually, mustlovegin. From things the OP has said, I think I know which one. One of the pioneers of education for girls from the 19th century, if I'm right. Incredibly depressing that they are now so reluctant to even name the sex of the children they were founded to educate.

Incredibly depressing

Indeed

@ancientgran

I am glad you can see my point but it is a shame you brought daughter into it because as I said the discussion would be much more straightforward if you focused on your real issue. It is time schools did stop using son/daughter/mother/father as there are many examples of when that is not appropriate and can be downright upsetting.

So because someone doesn't have a mother or a father no one else is allowed to ? 🙄

Lady Hale:

“The first thing that a totalitarian regime tries to do is to get to the children, to distance them from the subversive, varied influences of their families, and indoctrinate them in their rulers’ view of the world .” (Christian Institute v Lord Advocate, 2016, UKSC 51, para 73.)

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0216-judgment.pdf

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]Lady Hale:

“The first thing that a totalitarian regime tries to do is to get to the children, to distance them from the subversive, varied influences of their families, and indoctrinate them in their rulers’ view of the world .” (Christian Institute v Lord Advocate, 2016, UKSC 51, para 73.)

www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2015-0216-judgment.pdf[/quote]
This is what's happening in schools up and down the country. Am hoping an investigative journalist can lift the lid on this scandal.

@DameMaureen So because someone doesn't have a mother or a father no one else is allowed to ? Spectacular twisting going on. No because not every girl there will have a mother the school shouldn't assume that they have, when the are talking to the responsible adult they shouldn't assume they are the mother/father. Obviously if a girl is with her mother she does have a mother, isn't she lucky but does she need that relationship affirming? Are we so insecure we need to have the badge mother or daughter constantly. Why not use child which includes all the girls or boys in a mixed school/boys school rather than daughter/son which doesn't?

[quote ancientgran]**@DameMaureen* So because someone doesn't have a mother or a father no one else is allowed to ?* Spectacular twisting going on. No because not every girl there will have a mother the school shouldn't assume that they have, when the are talking to the responsible adult they shouldn't assume they are the mother/father. Obviously if a girl is with her mother she does have a mother, isn't she lucky but does she need that relationship affirming? Are we so insecure we need to have the badge mother or daughter constantly. Why not use child which includes all the girls or boys in a mixed school/boys school rather than daughter/son which doesn't?[/quote]
No it's not spectacular twisting - it's not about a relationship needing reaffirmed 🙄 It is literally just that - a relationship and people and schools are allowed to use that phrase and yes the words mother or daughter . I do not see why these words cannot be used in a school because some are in a different type of family .

So you think in a hall of students and adults it is OK to keep talking about your son/daughter? Are the other students being ignored? Why not refer to them as girls/boys/children/students why deliberately choose a term that excludes some of them? Fine if you are addressing someone and you know they are the parents, it is there daughter, not fine if it isn't a parent and not fine to a large meeting where it is likely to be inappropriate for some.

By the way I never said they should never be used in school so don't make things up.

Some people have no empathy, I would think less of myself if I insisted on something like that at the expense of others.

@ancientgran

So you think in a hall of students and adults it is OK to keep talking about your son/daughter? Are the other students being ignored? Why not refer to them as girls/boys/children/students why deliberately choose a term that excludes some of them? Fine if you are addressing someone and you know they are the parents, it is there daughter, not fine if it isn't a parent and not fine to a large meeting where it is likely to be inappropriate for some.

By the way I never said they should never be used in school so don't make things up.

Some people have no empathy, I would think less of myself if I insisted on something like that at the expense of others.

Some people have no empathy, I would think less of myself if I insisted on something like that at the expense of others

don't you see though that you are ?

No I'm not. We all have more than one identity, a daughter who is at school is also a girl, a child, a student. The only one of those labels that can exclude some of the children at a girls school is daughter, insisting on using daughter is excluding other children, using girl, child or student isn't.

We're going to have to agree to differ on this .

Yes if you are determined to exclude vulnerable children you will just carry on I suppose.

The child is still someone's daughter regardless of their living situation. They shouldn't be learning that the word is offensive and wrong when applied to them.

@Beowulfa

The child is still someone's daughter regardless of their living situation. They shouldn't be learning that the word is offensive and wrong when applied to them.

Their parents might be dead for all we know.

Well look at it like this the OP went to meeting at school. Head gets up and welcomes all the dads OP think "What about me, I'm not a dad." Do you think that is OK or should the Head include everyone at the meeting? If it is OK to exclude the mothers who are there then fair enough exclude the foster parents, the big sister bringing up siblings, the grandparents bring up grandchild but if you think the Head should have included the mothers he should also include the others.

It isn't about daughter being offensive it is about addressing a group of adults about their daughters when that isn't appropriate to everyone thus excluding them.

Ok, I find this a bit over the top, sorry ancientgran. It is clear to this is a very sensitive topic for you. May I ask what your situation is?

My mother died when I was little (5 years old). I sat through yearly sessions of making Mother’s Day cards. It never struck me to complain about it, I was actually happy for other children to have a mother.

My grandmother practically raised me. She did everything a mother would have done. I don’t this she at any point was complaining about exclusive language. She was beyond herself with grief the first few years and then she got on with things.

If you need the language at your school adjusted to make you feel more included, I would obviously be supportive of that. Believe me, I do understand even if it never really mattered to me. No inclusive language would bring my mother back to life or lessen the grief we felt.

However, the big point in this discussion is that girls need to be referred to as girls. Not little menstruators, people, non-boys or anything else. It is really hard to be a girl these days. Sexual harassment in schools are absolutely appalling- look at the “everyone is invited” website. Going through puberty as a girl is horrific, made worse by the trauma of dealing with periods, spots and the unwanted attention from boys. Girls need to be empowered, happy and proud to be girls. We cannot take the word girls away from them.

As for daughter, I am still my mother’s daughter. She died more than 30 years ago but I have pictures of her. I have things that she made. My dad is actually also dead now (heart attach) and I am his daughter as well. You never stop being anyone’s daughter.