To Feel Really Saddened That DD's School can't say Daughter or Girl

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I went to a my DD's high performing Central London Girls school last night for an introduction to year 8 where they mainly talked about attendance.

We then had a talk by the form tutor in the classroom. I noticed that during the entire form tutor chat she was referring to the girls as children. This wasn't an accident because at one point she nearly said daughters but stopped herself. I've noticed my daughter talking about the girls in her class as "people". I've also seen her gender PHSE work from year 7 which says if you misgender someone it is an act of violence. Hmm what about obliteration of gender?

I am profoundly dismayed by this and feel that the school is complicit in the stripping of girls/women's identities. How can "inclusivity" mean that the females have no identity whatsoever?

Am finding this whole situation really really disconcerting. Something nefarious has penetrated the school system. How can fundamental biological/physiological fact be washed away by "lived experience".

There's tremendous inconsistency and hypocrisy at work, here. The school wants to toe the line when it comes to terminology... but their actions don't appear to support the idea that they "really" believe trans women are women and trans men are men (etc.). Because surely if they did, students who come out as transgender should leave?

That is the logical conclusion of the ideological stance their language use is implying they hold. But I don't see any of these top London girls' schools ejecting pupils who now identify as boys. Why do these pupils even want to stay at such schools? Surely a comprehensive would be better and more affirming, since it would not be, by definition, a girls' school?

I agree with you.

My dd’s school is a girls only school (comprehensive) and refers to girls and daughters all the time. Obviously not got the memo! Thank goodness.

@SigourneyHoward

At least they have quite reached Lancet front page levels of description

" welcome men and adult bodies with vaginas to this introduction meeting for year 8 for your young bodies with vaginas. We are tremendously excited for what you young bodies with vaginas are going to achieve this year"

Calling women "people" = calling them bodies with vaginas

What about schools with 'x school for girls' in their title. I hope they are not going to change!

Honestly, you're being ridiculous. No one is being erased.

You have no idea.

The Lancet calls women "Bodies with vaginas". Macmillan cancer updates its website to remove the words women/woman (not men!) Women are being referred to as "birthing bodies", "vulva owners" and other degrading phrases and you think that is inclusive?

@OneTC

If the TRAs are so convinced TWAW

Because it's girls identifying as boys?

No transwomen are men who feel like they are a woman.

TRAs believe that you only need to feel like a woman to be a woman so they often tout Trans Woman Are Women.

But in the same breath they'll call real women People Who Menstruate, or Bodies With Cervixes.

So if women are bodies with cervixes, and men who feel like women are women, that completely erases the meaning of the word woman.

There's nothing wrong with saying Transwomen are Transwomen and Women are Women, but saying that women are people and Transwomen are women, and then introducing this to the world where any naysayers are committing hate crime is quite simply put; oppression.

@KaptainKaveman

But why can't they be called "girls"? Can someone please explain. Aren't they "girls"?

By refusing to use the vocab you're encouraging them to be ashamed of being girls/ daughters/ women.

Yes it's quite something. Especially at this age. If words are important for non binary people how can they not be for binary people? These girls are young. I can survive being called "person" because all my life I've known I was female. Now everything is being turned on its head and we have no idea how it will turn out.

Zerogravity

Women are people too. Not just men
Strange then that it's only the words referring to women and girls that are being erased, don't you think?“

Were “boys” or “sons” referred to OP, or simply children for all?

Definitely St. Paul's school

I agree OP 100%

Were “boys” or “sons” referred to OP, or simply children for all?
I was referring to other recent examples. You have to look at the bigger picture.

@FangsForTheMemory

Where is there any anti trans stuff in the post? Ni mention of trans at all

And lots about obliteration of woman

Ah, Girl’s school.

Ignore previous post, coffee needed

@GeorgiaMcGraw

Might be worth asking the head teacher why the school can't acknowledge that girls exist? Do they want the girls at their school to feel ashamed of being girls? This is really sad. I went to a Girls Grammar and we were encouraged to be proud that we were girls, growing up to be women. We knew that sexism still existed and we were taught to strive to achieve, regardless of any barriers. Now girls seem to be taught that their very existence is taboo.

This, in spades. At my girls' school in the 1970s we had an almost entirely female staff, all graduates or equivalent. We might have scoffed at some of them as old fogeys but they were living proof that girls and women could do maths, science, leadership, other hard things, including juggling work and family responsibilities. We've gone backwards since.

I currently have custody of one of my GC due to serious issues at home. On top of everything else we've coped with I'm sick of it always being assumed that a child in your custody is a son or daughter, that the responsible adult is a mother/father/parent.

Just tried to apply for child benefit and again all references to parents.

So what about the identity of children who don't have the luxury your child has of living with at least one parent and not having their "difference" constantly rubbed in their face.

Maybe have a thought for people who have got more serious issues going on in their life.

@GeorgiaMcGraw

Might be worth asking the head teacher why the school can't acknowledge that girls exist? Do they want the girls at their school to feel ashamed of being girls? This is really sad. I went to a Girls Grammar and we were encouraged to be proud that we were girls, growing up to be women. We knew that sexism still existed and we were taught to strive to achieve, regardless of any barriers. Now girls seem to be taught that their very existence is taboo.

My point is that they are ashamed of being girls - perhaps for another post but the biological reality of being female is being so degraded by all of that I'm sure it's a causative factor in the rapid onset gender dysphoria we're seeing. Girls rejecting their biological truth in record numbers. And yet people see this as a solution rather than a problem.

This is all very strange to me.

I'm pro trans identity. But it's so confusing that the word men is always fine, it's only ever the female words that are being replaced with more inclusive terms.

That in itself is indicative of something less innocent than inclusion.

And yes, I agree I don't understand what the issue is with using men and women, boys and girls. Isn't the whole point of being trans not wanting to be othered and to be included under the umbrella of one's chosen gender correlating with a binary sex?

I just don't really get it.

If they have some kids who say they are non-binary, then going with "children" seems reasonable.

I say this as someone identifying as a "woman" rather than cis or awt else.

Will we start to see girls identifying as boys applying to boys only schools?
And vice-versa?
Is this happening?
And genuinely, if you identify as the opposite sex then surely you should be required to leave your single sex school?

This is the crux of the problem with the whole debate. Women assigned female at birth want to have their gender recognised as they face sex-based discrimination every day but inclusive pronouns erase and deny sex based discrimination. It is important that all people have their pronouns recognised but how do we do this without erasing other minorities. Trans and non binary people tend to find inclusive language ideal for them but many women (I’m going to use the word as it is the pronoun they want to be known by) find inclusive language to be exclusionary. Mostly because there is virtually no debate over removing male pronouns. We also rarely get to hear from tans men in the debate which says to me that they are still being discriminated against based on their former biological sex. All groups need to come together and fight against patriarchal violence against us all.

She still has freedom of speech, I would encourage her to say daughters and girl as much as possible. This gender obliteration crap has to stop.

@Tilltheend99 exactly. I totally agree with everything you have said.

How can people not expect biological women to be targeted when it is absolute crickets when it comes to changing anything man-related.

Especially given how it is women targeted for abuse based on their biology, regardless of their femininity or gender identity.

My daughter will go to a girls high school. If they can’t celebrate girls I will ask why and explain I have to find a different school, that this school won’t be delivering the support and affirmation for developing girls I expect, particularly given the fees.