To Feel Really Saddened That DD's School can't say Daughter or Girl

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I went to a my DD's high performing Central London Girls school last night for an introduction to year 8 where they mainly talked about attendance.

We then had a talk by the form tutor in the classroom. I noticed that during the entire form tutor chat she was referring to the girls as children. This wasn't an accident because at one point she nearly said daughters but stopped herself. I've noticed my daughter talking about the girls in her class as "people". I've also seen her gender PHSE work from year 7 which says if you misgender someone it is an act of violence. Hmm what about obliteration of gender?

I am profoundly dismayed by this and feel that the school is complicit in the stripping of girls/women's identities. How can "inclusivity" mean that the females have no identity whatsoever?

Am finding this whole situation really really disconcerting. Something nefarious has penetrated the school system. How can fundamental biological/physiological fact be washed away by "lived experience".

@CorrBlimeyGG

Strange then that it's only the words referring to women and girls that are being erased, don't you think?

Apparently men and boys were not mentioned either.

Honestly, you're being ridiculous. No one is being erased. More people are being included, and that can only be a good thing. Right? You wouldn't want to see people excluded, would you?

Why would men and boys need to be mentioned? It's a girls' school, and each pupil's sex is confirmed on admission by presentation of the girl's birth certificate.

As for exclusion, if I talk about chairs I am excluding tables. This is how language works. Words have defined meanings. If we use vague terms instead communication is less effective.

“And yes - please do give it a rest. Your child is not being harmed by being referred to as a person.”
Well said !

@MrsSkylerWhite

Zerogravity

Women are people too. Not just men
Strange then that it's only the words referring to women and girls that are being erased, don't you think?“

Were “boys” or “sons” referred to OP, or simply children for all?

It's a girls school - whatever that means so boys - whatever that means were not mentioned.

@AvocadoPlant

Will we start to see girls identifying as boys applying to boys only schools? And vice-versa? Is this happening? And genuinely, if you identify as the opposite sex then surely you should be required to leave your single sex school?

The thing is, the kids apply for senior school at the age of 10.

By the time they get to 18, they may have changed their perspective a lot (and decided they have a different sexual identity etc)

There might be an advantage for a child in going co ed if this is flagged up as an issue early on.

However, if this evolves while the child is at school, then you could end up with someone identifying as male but at an all-girls school. or vice versa.

It seems a bit harsh to make them change school completely (it is a problem I think that many single-sex schools share and is increasing).

Oh give it a rest. Your daughter is a child. We don't all need to be referred to as a specific gender at every opportunity.

It's like objecting because someone has said "hello everyone" instead of "hello ladies and gentlemen"

Ridiculous.

Presumably then they’ve changed their title from “all girls school”? Nope, didn’t think so.

YANBU, OP.

My dd has just started at an all girl's secondary school and they still very much use daughters and girls, alongside a lot of talk about encouraging them to be strong, independent women. I know from photographs of past pupils that at least one girl has transitioned whilst at the school and it looks like they kept everything the same. It is a very nurturing school and I imagine it was treated with utmost sensitivity.

I would actually move my dd if they started using language like you describe op. I also work with pregnant women and have very much stuck to my guns in terms of language, but it is changing - I have heard 'birth giver' and the non-specific 'genitals' recently.

It seems a bit harsh to make them change school completely (it is a problem I think that many single-sex schools share and is increasing).
True. But either the school thinks they have literally changed sex and should leave or they don't. As they clearly don't, why change the language?

@WoodchipNightmares

Oh give it a rest. Your daughter is a child. We don't all need to be referred to as a specific gender at every opportunity.

It's like objecting because someone has said "hello everyone" instead of "hello ladies and gentlemen"

Ridiculous.

It is nothing like that. Women have suffered oppression as a class because of their biology, and have certain protections because of it. To erase the category of 'women and girls' because someone male-bodied thinks that being a girl/woman is a 'feeling' rather than a lived reality is to remove those protections.

I don't think this has anything to do with the trans debate. I think it's go do with girls being made to feel that they are existentially dangerous and taboo and that they must dim their lights in order to not offend.

@littlepeas

My dd has just started at an all girl's secondary school and they still very much use daughters and girls, alongside a lot of talk about encouraging them to be strong, independent women. I know from photographs of past pupils that at least one girl has transitioned whilst at the school and it looks like they kept everything the same. It is a very nurturing school and I imagine it was treated with utmost sensitivity.

I would actually move my dd if they started using language like you describe op. I also work with pregnant women and have very much stuck to my guns in terms of language, but it is changing - I have heard 'birth giver' and the non-specific 'genitals' recently.

"Genitals" as opposed to "vagina", say?

Presumably people aren't thinking that you can give birth through a penis now?

This I would like to see attempted

The pupils in that school are girls because it is a school for girls. If the administration don't accept that, they should change the name of the school.

@WoodchipNightmares

Oh give it a rest. Your daughter is a child. We don't all need to be referred to as a specific gender at every opportunity.

It's like objecting because someone has said "hello everyone" instead of "hello ladies and gentlemen"

Ridiculous.

It's not just that though. I'm seeing girls of my DD's age becoming very repulsed by their femaleness and I think there is a connection. In the quest to make everyone feel included the majority (boring old binary girls) are being excluded.

@WoodchipNightmares

Oh give it a rest. Your daughter is a child. We don't all need to be referred to as a specific gender at every opportunity.

It's like objecting because someone has said "hello everyone" instead of "hello ladies and gentlemen"

Ridiculous.

It's nothing at all like that. There are intentions at play: to remove our sex (not gender) as a category. You can't see any harm in that? After so much oppression and inequality?

One of the many things that bother me here is the unthinking assertion that women and girls who have no gender identity issues are a privileged group. In relation to trans and non-binary people, we are considered equivalent to white people in relation to other ethnic groups, ie we are privileged, and oppressive by refusing access to single sex spaces, services and language. There appears to be no grasp that we are actually ourselves at risk of violence and sexism, and we need these separate spaces, services etc for our safety, dignity and privacy.

@Zerogravity

It seems a bit harsh to make them change school completely (it is a problem I think that many single-sex schools share and is increasing). True. But either the school thinks they have literally changed sex and should leave or they don't. As they clearly don't, why change the language?

I think in the current situation the schools really are doing their best to "be kind" (and in this situation this is an appropriate way to describe it) to teens just starting to navigate their personal and sexual identities, in the middle of a pandemic and school closures.

One (boys' school) head has said they think this may be the end of single sex schools, as a significant number of the teens see themselves so much on a spectrum these days.

@herecomesthsun And of course, the end of single sex schools would... wait for it... harm girls the most.

[quote Innocenta]@herecomesthsun And of course, the end of single sex schools would... wait for it... harm girls the most. [/quote]
Well, to be honest I loathed both my all girls schools.

But then again girls are meant to do better academically in single sex aren't they?

I think the world has gone mad.
I am female and find it offensive to delete/obliterate my sex and identity. I identity as female not neutral.
So wrong of school . If it was me I would complain. Everyone has the right to be identified as who they are. To remove such and class all as neutal is offensive.

@LateDecemberBackInLowB12

Is your daughter not a person?

She's also a mammal and a vertebrate, presumably. Maybe that's what the school should use to ensure even more inclusiveness.

I'd be most interested to hear from a parent of a boy at Eton or Westminster whether staff there are avoiding calling their pupils boys, sons etc.

I’m with you OP 100% on this. The erasure of terms such as WOMEN - GIRLS - FEMALES and replacing with broad terms to appease a tiny minority of loudmouths is heartbreaking and has to stop!! We are loosing our identities to make others feel happy about their choices.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

One of the many things that bother me here is the unthinking assertion that women and girls who have no gender identity issues are a privileged group. In relation to trans and non-binary people, we are considered equivalent to white people in relation to other ethnic groups, ie we are privileged, and oppressive by refusing access to single sex spaces, services and language. There appears to be no grasp that we are actually ourselves at risk of violence and sexism, and we need these separate spaces, services etc for our safety, dignity and privacy.

Absolutely. A certain nakedly aggressive strain of TRA, which has managed to get an astonishing amount of mainstream traction, has managed to convince society as a whole that women and girls are in fact an oppressor group unwilling to share privilege with an oppressed minority.

I would imagine it’s because there is a child in the school or class who is nonbinary or transgender. So it’s easier to say child. Children in mixed sexual schools are always refered to as people or children, and they survive even if they don’t go to ‘high performing central london schools’