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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

492 replies

Cwenthryth · 27/09/2021 23:07

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

OP posts:
jclm · 27/09/2021 23:31

Absolutely fascinating. Following

FlibbertyGiblets · 27/09/2021 23:32
Shock

Wait, what?

FlibbertyGiblets · 27/09/2021 23:35

I feel sick. These are not our crimes.

MildCreamyCheddar · 27/09/2021 23:36

You're assuming. Don't assume. It's dangerous not to find and correctly portray facts and statistics.

NiceGerbil · 28/09/2021 00:27

Who is assuming what, mild?

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 28/09/2021 00:32

No one would need to assume if the full information was given with each case.

LangClegsInSpace · 28/09/2021 00:34

These are not our crimes.

How is it that so many people still can't see / won't see / wilfully deny what's going on here?

I am so done with this shit.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 28/09/2021 00:36

I would also say that it is dangerous not to find and correctly portray facts when reporting such crimes.

NiceGerbil · 28/09/2021 00:36

Sheldon who has time to trawl through the full info of all the rapes prosecuted every year in the UK?

Counting dead women have enough trouble getting the names of the the women murdered every year. It's a massive job.

And what would be the point of going through it all?

Datun · 28/09/2021 00:37

@MildCreamyCheddar

You're assuming. Don't assume. It's dangerous not to find and correctly portray facts and statistics.
In the uk, the crime of rape requires a penis. A male organ.
NiceGerbil · 28/09/2021 00:37

Ah Sheldon can you say why you think this is dangerous?

Do you doubt this statistic?

'Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.'

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 28/09/2021 00:48

Ah?

As for statistics? I would like to know how many women prosecuted for rape had a penis.

NiceGerbil · 28/09/2021 00:57

Yes why do you think that statistic is dangerous?

You're talking about people reading it thinking that most or all of them are male?

Don't you think that's a reasonable assumption?

Cwenthryth · 28/09/2021 07:14

@MildCreamyCheddar

You're assuming. Don't assume. It's dangerous not to find and correctly portray facts and statistics.
What do you think I’m assuming? I laid out my understanding in my OP, and asked if anyone think I’ve misunderstood. Care to explain further what your interpretation of this information is, if you think mine is incorrect?
OP posts:
Babdoc · 28/09/2021 09:20

We can expect this to increase, as soon as rapists realise they only have to claim a trans identity in order to be locked up in a women’s prison, with plentiful access to vulnerable and traumatised potential further victims.
What rapist could resist the opportunity to force women to shower naked with them, or be locked in a cell with them overnight?
The UK justice system is subjecting women to conditions forbidden under the Geneva Convention for prisoners of war.
And idiot politicians are cheerleading it.

Datun · 28/09/2021 09:23

@Babdoc

We can expect this to increase, as soon as rapists realise they only have to claim a trans identity in order to be locked up in a women’s prison, with plentiful access to vulnerable and traumatised potential further victims. What rapist could resist the opportunity to force women to shower naked with them, or be locked in a cell with them overnight? The UK justice system is subjecting women to conditions forbidden under the Geneva Convention for prisoners of war. And idiot politicians are cheerleading it.
Indeed. Here is Kate Coleman reading a statement from an incarcerated woman, demonstrating that men now claim the human right to intimidate and harass incarcerated women.
TheWeeDonkey · 28/09/2021 10:13

@SheldonesqueTheBstard

Ah?

As for statistics? I would like to know how many women prosecuted for rape had a penis.

I feel like I'm through the looking glass
Thelnebriati · 28/09/2021 11:35

Does anyone know the percentage increase year on year?

TheDeadlyNightShade · 28/09/2021 12:27

Please can people sign the petition on this thread and help keep the thread bumped so that more people will see it and signed. Also if you possibly can please share it across social media to get more signatures.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4299869-Please-sign-this-petition-to-have-crimes-by-men-recorded-as-mens-crimes

NecessaryScene · 28/09/2021 13:14

But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right?

You can't necessarily conclude that purely from the letter of the law.

For whatever reason, in the 2000s (I think) there was a drive to make the law sex-neutral here. But it appears they decided it was easier to have that effect by changing sentencing guidelines than the law itself.

So the guidelines say that for all practical purposes any form of "sexual assault by penetration" is sentenced the same as rape ("sexual assault by penis"), and the two are grouped together in the stats, despite "rape" still being a different offense.

If you look at the small print for the "rape" stats, you'll probably see that it encompasses offense codes 14 ("rape") and 21D ("sexual assault - penetration"). (Not sure of the code numbers - that's just an illustrative example. I've looked at this in the past, so recall how it worked).

HOWEVER, yes, given male/female offending behaviour it seems likely to me that a large number of those recorded for rape/penetration will be transwomen, most of the rest will be female accomplices, and there will be very few female perpetrators. But I don't know that we can see the data to be certain.

allmywhat · 28/09/2021 14:07

I noted the figure for 2018 is higher than for any previous years. I would very much like to see the data for 2019 and 2020.

BaronMunchausen · 28/09/2021 14:26

Is it not the case that the only charge that can be made against (biological) women is one of being an accessory to rape?

And that these data refer specifically to rape?

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 28/09/2021 14:43

Yes Baron I believe you are right. These are not our crimes. Depressingly, I am not actually shocked about this.

deadleaves · 28/09/2021 15:01

@Datun thanks for that you tube link - I've just posted it to my facebook.

Are there links to the rest of the talks at the Scottish Parliament rally?

ErrolTheDragon · 28/09/2021 15:19

@MildCreamyCheddar

You're assuming. Don't assume. It's dangerous not to find and correctly portray facts and statistics.
We bloody well shouldn't have to assume or second guess what these statistics actually mean. The problem is exactly that meaningful facts and statistics aren't being recorded. Hmm