More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

[Cwenthryth]

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

What!!! If true brilliant news!!!

Brilliant! Will she now take a case against them, or will there be an investigation as to how it was handled? To the casual observer, it may have seemed that there was a bit of a stitch up going on.

It's true. There is a thread on this board with a link to her statement.

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1453643022235746309?s=21

I am hopeful this will be good for Ceri too.

But what a nightmare for Marion to cope with.

Thanks Bonsai

Just reposting my post of 06.58 where I quoted robins post.
(Thanks Michael MNHQ)

robin

You have not achieved what you think. You might get some brownie points over with the mimmybirthingparent, who takes trans people to court, on twitter. Yay!!! Congrats. But this is not twitter.

The only posts of yours that will stay are those where you haven’t displayed your anger and disbelief that people disagree with you, that MN feel have clearly crossed the line. Your tantrums will live where people have replied to you with questioning, patience, gentle push back and, sometimes, humour.

And over time, this thread will be revisited as more information about just what is happening to the female rape prosecution stats and you will be there at the beginning with your fat finger theory and your condescension about how you have decades working with large databases. (No judgement about the details of your expertise, I think we have covered that)

You know, these threads can have a life of a couple of years of being added to. But tens of thousands will read this thread and see your contribution.

Thank you.

@Helleofabore

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1453643022235746309?s=21

I am hopeful this will be good for Ceri too.

But what a nightmare for Marion to cope with.

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19678238.prosecutors-discontinue-hate-crime-case-scots-feminist-marion-millar/

There's still more than a hint of cat and mouse potential around this. Sometimes the threat of something can be more chilling than actually proceeding with a case in the public glare in a timely manner.

@ArabellaScott

Damn, I stopped clapping. Sorry. Got distracted, fell asleep. Has anyone disappeared?

Yes…robin

Fucking hell arabella 😳

Oh, geezo. I feel really bad.

@Bonsaibreaker

News Flash

Case against Marion Millar dropped!!!

Oh goodness

Rufus

@Bonsaibreaker

News Flash

Case against Marion Millar dropped!!!

There's a mist of a threat left hanging as the complainants can request a review of the prosecutors' decision:

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19678238.prosecutors-discontinue-hate-crime-case-scots-feminist-marion-millar/

Cat and mouse would likely be very effective deterrent and chilling effect.

A literal statement that men are pretending to be women so they can get into women's prisons

Actual people in the prison service have said this, and psychologists have given oral evidence to a government inquiry that this would likely be the case.

@ArabellaScott

Oh, geezo. I feel really bad.

Shame on you….

I’m not angry

I’m just disappointed

@Ereshkigalangcleg

A literal statement that men are pretending to be women so they can get into women's prisons

Actual people in the prison service have said this, and psychologists have given oral evidence to a government inquiry that this would likely be the case.

The nature of his 2009 remarks still burns me but this includes James Barrett who took a while to accept what women were telling him about motivations and who changed his thinking.

"I would say that I suspect that caution will probably lead to her being placed on a segregation unit in the first instance and that in no very great time (perhaps a couple of months) it will become clear that she is so widely accepted as female in that unit that location in the main prison will follow. I think that such acceptance will pretty generally apply in the main prison, also, although there will probably always be a small number of prisoners who will choose to make an issue of the matter because they are the sort of women who enjoy conflict. If this patient is able to cope with protracted close proximity women of that sort I would judge her able to cope with the less prolonged, more avoidable, travails of the civilian world."

Barrett 2009: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3370661-2009-case-of-a-judge-ordering-an-intact-male-rapist-into-a-female-prison-because-he-had-a-GRC?pg=2

Barrett 2015:

The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4219255-Transwomen-prison?msgid=106492155

Rufus, I don't know what to say.

I repent?

Hugs to Arabella. You tried your hardest but sometimes, you gotta sleep. I was clapping too from early this morning, but you know, it just didn't seem to work.

as in... no unicorns appeared....

And maybe we lost someone off the thread, but hey, that happens sometimes too. Right?

I don't believe this at all. I don't think I have even ever used the term 'tr*nies. I find it repulsive.

The only time I have ever seen it used on MN is by transactivists, mimicking what we say as if we are bigoted men, or people using it in the 1970s.

Just like you can find it on many "progressive" men's Twitter back catalogues, such as Damian Barr, Frankie Boyle etc.

the sort of women who enjoy conflict

That's all of us, to these men. Never mind the attack on our basic human rights to privacy and dignity, and the risk to our safety.

the sort of women who enjoy conflict

I'll never get over how disgusting that comment is. Telling incarcerated women that their reluctance to be house with rapists is because they enjoy fucking conflict?

It's so Orwellian. They are going to be IN bloody conflict with rapists and the misogynists who put them there.

Ugh.

Just like you can find it on many "progressive" men's Twitter back catalogues, such as Damian Barr, Frankie Boyle etc.

Possibly Caitlin Moran's first or most obvious pile-on related to her use of the word. Her explanation is in the screenshot.

www.thehairpin.com/2012/08/an-interview-with-caitlin-moran/

@ArabellaScott

Rufus, I don't know what to say.

I repent?

Youre such a benefit to the board I can’t stay disappointed for long 🧁

We’ll have to do it in shifts next time its a lot of responsibility for one person (i know helleofabore) was trying

Baggsy 10.00 am til 10.02 am

I am testing something with a clap ...

@Bonsaibreaker

News Flash

Case against Marion Millar dropped!!!

Fucking Ace!

Off to do some reading