More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

[Cwenthryth]

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

And robin, having had quite a bit of experience with large databases and indeed the data entry into those databases as well, that % of error would have already been there historically and would correspond to the same data error %.

Or are there more fat fingered data entry people are the moment?

Oh my god….. is that a bat?

It's based on decades of experience with working with large databases and large organisations that use them.

And maybe, just maybe the people that have gone through and researched the actual number of trans people committing crimes recorded as female might be onto the right information and robin has nothing to support their credibility but fat fingers and tin foil hats…

Except that you haven't done that, have you? You've found something that you think supports your prejudice and are proudly declaring this as evidence of secret trans conspiracies...

@PlanDeRaccordement

There was I thinking that the concern was about the real life impact on women. What about the impact on women who are being locked up with male rapists and sexual assailants?

Well given that women “rape” other convicted criminal women with broom handles, fists, and other objects more physically damaging than a penis, I personally think adding a few penii to the array of women’s prison rape weapons is not an issue in the top 100 of feminist issues.

I don't know anything about the statistics or those incidents. I don't agree with your premise though. If something is wrong, why add to it and make women even more vulnerable. There will be a huge strength disparity by adding in males. That is only from the safety aspect. Otherwise, you are making a case for allowing all men and women to be incarcerated together based on the premise that some women will hurt other women. Even prisoners of war are expected to be saved from male prisoners in their midst.

It shouldn't be a free for all. You can ensure that the violence experienced by incarcerated women isn't added to by the inclusion of males prisoners into their environment.

That leaves the focus on tackling on the incidents you mention.

But.....why?

What if you're a male homosexual rapist?

Also, will the men be kind enough to restrict their rape to just using their penises. Considering you state that women are using broom handles. Are the males less dangerous than the women, then? That is a new perspective. I thought that no females were put into the men's estate for their safety from women . In fact, I though even the prison service didn't move transmen into the men's estate precisely for the opposite reason. They'd be in more danger in the men's estate.

There have been some horrible attacks and murders of women by men who used more than their penises.

You realise the bat/squirrel stich wasn't funny the first time and becomes increasingly more offensive the more you repeat it. This is a serious issue and treating it like a child arguing about whether they can play with their Xbox before doing their homework is frankly embarrassing.

All the more so because you're using it purely to deflect away from the fact that you've made a whole series of claims devoid of any evidence. Do you have any interest in engaging with the actual subject?

I've never understood the seeming lack of any curiosity from the TRA side. I personally think its very unlikely that such a rise can be attributed to 'fat fingers' but is no-one, anywhere, saying 'hmm, there's a rise here in the number of women being charged/convicted/incarcerated for rape, maybe it's a statistical anomaly, but maybe we should check it out?'

It's like the huge rise (4400%) of teenage girls expressing a wish to change their gender. Apart from one study regarding ROGD (which was immediately quashed, adding to the chilling effect on research), there is no other research going on at all, by Stonewall or other organisations. Is there no intellectual curiosity, at all, about the issue?

It's based on decades of experience with working with large databases and large organisations that use them.

aawww.... so NO experience directly with entering these particular records.

I, too, have decades of experience with large databases. But not for these particular records. But enough to know that any data entry error would be prevalent all the way through the data's history and would not be causing the anomaly as you suggest. And that if it was a particularly poor data entry service, it would have been picked up and rectified.

Look ---> A unicorn!

@robinr66

You realise the bat/squirrel stich wasn't funny the first time and becomes increasingly more offensive the more you repeat it. This is a serious issue and treating it like a child arguing about whether they can play with their Xbox before doing their homework is frankly embarrassing.

All the more so because you're using it purely to deflect away from the fact that you've made a whole series of claims devoid of any evidence. Do you have any interest in engaging with the actual subject?

The evidence has been pull apart and discussed.

It is you who are keen to minimise this as data entry error. You have expressed no curiosity outside of 'it is fat fingers' and asserting your experience with unknown databases and not this one at all.

So, homosexual men (despite crimes many times being about power), older men, 'nice' men, impotent men or incapacitated men, and men who simply want to, are fine in the women's estate, then? Because they are what?

Mind you, back to the stats... ! Too many squirrels.

If you are finding my posts offensive, then please by all means, post the proof that the increase is due to fat fingers.

I, myself, have already stated that if it is indeed correct and there are more female sex crimes being recorded, then we should definitely be finding out why. So that it can be addressed properly. Why are females penetrating others and with what.

[quote CorrBlimeyGG]There was I thinking that the concern was about the real life impact on women.

Indeed. These 'feminists' are not in the least bit interested in the impact of austerity on women, about discrimination in the workplace, or even about the 98+% of sexual offences committed by men. They're more focused on the

Do you have any interest in engaging with the actual subject?

Do you?

And speaking of being devoid of evidence - do you have any?

You've found something that you think supports your prejudice and are proudly declaring this as evidence of secret trans conspiracies...

And yet, you have only focused on demonising people for pointing out ONE of the reasons for the increase. I indicated upthread that I was open to understanding more about this and if it was females accurately being captured why, what is the difference.

You talk about 'prejudice', yet the only one who seems to be showing prejudice here is you.

Entering something correctly 97 times out of 100 is actually a really really high rate of accuracy. 436 errors in ten thousand cases is good, not bad.
Imagine if I said that in the finance world I live in.
Farewell paid employment!
You’d be clutching at straws to argue this one data point has had a significant error increase while others have remained constant. Any data analyst/ statistician would blink that this seemed a likely argument, but if you really wanted to try it would be feasible to do a statistical analysis on the likelihood that a single data error rate increased noticeably from a certain point, with the null hypothesis being something like error rates have increased across the board after this certain point in time.

@robinr66

What if you're a male homosexual rapist?

Chances are that you rape men. There have been any number of high profile cases about this. Not sure what your point is.

And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, woman cannot be charged with rape in the UK as this requires a penis. At the most, they can be charged with being an accessory or accomplice but not with the actual rape itself.

There is one case I know of where a woman has been convicted of rape - and that was quite a sensational crime because of its unique nature.

And the number of women accused of this crime is vanishingly small as is the number of women who are sexual assailants.

"transphobe"?

That didn't take long. It never does.

And there would have been a 20% swing every single year historically too in drink driving deaths. Unless there was a change in how it was collated.

And much of MY database experience comes from the financial sector. Where there is a very high need to have reliable data to access for obviously many purposes.

I am not a transphobe so I have reported your post.

As I have said, your prejudice is very clear here.

In the nicest possible way, this kind of error is endemic in the finance world also. The fact that accounts add up doesn't mean they're right. Plenty of companies find they've made accounting errors.

In terms of other factors staying the same, where does it say that's the case? Because I see a single standalone stat and none of us have access to the data so you can't possibly support your assertion.

So, can we stop looking at various distractive and minimising techniques and get back to understanding the data?

Hardly surprising, given that this place is littered with them. Don't you think it's important to call out prejudice when you see it?

Just an example.
www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/17/sarahhall
Not every women who commits a crime was born male. The vast majority are born female, identify female.