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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More than one “woman” a week prosecuted for rape?!?!

492 replies

Cwenthryth · 27/09/2021 23:07

I just saw this on Twitter

twitter.com/profalices/status/1442415750497509380?s=21

Between 2012 and 2018, 436 individuals prosecuted for rape in England and Wales were recorded as women.
www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/committees/current-and-previous-committees/session-6-citizen-participation-and-public-petitions-committee/correspondence/2021/pe1876_h-professor-alice-sullivan-submission-of-27-august-2021

I’m shocked at this statistic. Yes, a small proportion of these may be women charged with rape by joint enterprise. Prof Sullivan posted on Twitter she has requested to separate out those cases. But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right? So what does this mean….436 (alleged) transwomen rapists in 6 years? That is more than one a week. In England & Wales.

Have I misunderstood that? I’m really shocked.

OP posts:
robinr66 · 27/10/2021 10:47

Because, as I said, rape can and is committed by women.

PlanDeRaccordement · 27/10/2021 10:50

@NecessaryScene

But, as under the law in England and Wales, rape is a crime committed with a penis….. so these (alleged) rapists are “bodies with penises” being recorded as women in crime stats. So transwomen, right?

You can't necessarily conclude that purely from the letter of the law.

For whatever reason, in the 2000s (I think) there was a drive to make the law sex-neutral here. But it appears they decided it was easier to have that effect by changing sentencing guidelines than the law itself.

So the guidelines say that for all practical purposes any form of "sexual assault by penetration" is sentenced the same as rape ("sexual assault by penis"), and the two are grouped together in the stats, despite "rape" still being a different offense.

If you look at the small print for the "rape" stats, you'll probably see that it encompasses offense codes 14 ("rape") and 21D ("sexual assault - penetration"). (Not sure of the code numbers - that's just an illustrative example. I've looked at this in the past, so recall how it worked).

HOWEVER, yes, given male/female offending behaviour it seems likely to me that a large number of those recorded for rape/penetration will be transwomen, most of the rest will be female accomplices, and there will be very few female perpetrators. But I don't know that we can see the data to be certain.

Great post. This is most probably the reason imho.

Besides, everyone is ignoring the fact that even if 52 women a year ARE doing “sexual assault by penetration” or female equivalent of rape that it is still less than 0.1% of the rate at which men rape....

We all know that a woman can sexually assault a man...the real point is that it’s very rare.

TheWatersofMarch · 27/10/2021 10:52

@Babdoc it would be interesting to see if the numbers of increased between 2012 and 2018. I would take a guess that they have.

robinr66 · 27/10/2021 10:53

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Cailleach1 · 27/10/2021 10:54

There was I thinking that the concern was about the real life impact on women.

What about the impact on women who are being locked up with male rapists and sexual assailants? Maybe the 'administrative error' could be corrected so that incarcerated women aren't made fair game adversely impacted.

I would also boldly suggest that it needn't be an either/or scenario. Adverse impacts on women, whether they are incarcerated or not, could all be addressed. Certainly if judicial and legal systems have now been skewed and are being run in such a way so as to disbenefit women. The inbuilt disbenefits to women need to be removed.

Or are human rights uniquely finite when it comes to women?

robinr66 · 27/10/2021 11:00

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Cailleach1 · 27/10/2021 11:07

Well, you are the only poster to mention tin foil hats and loons in your posts. Also, confidence in your own opinion despite the lacking evidence you also mention. Yes, you also prejudice and ignorance in your posts too. Freudian slips, maybe?

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:07

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robinr66 · 27/10/2021 11:07

I assume you're being facetious but, yes, this exactly how government data works.

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:10

Also I think you need to put your tin foil hat back on.

Shall I post the MoJ statements in one of the latest court hearings about how they have no idea which prisoners are trans and which are not? It seems you have missed quite a bit of the MoJ admitting their own policy loopholes.

But yes, fat fingers, tin foil hats and loons…. Keep on going!

robinr66 · 27/10/2021 11:11

Please, tell me what my intention is. I assume you think its to engage in some kind of trans AstroTurfing, courtesy of my secret Trans United Nations World Government paymasters?

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:11

It is a grey squirrel… but let’s ignore the influence of those squirrels…

CorrBlimeyGG · 27/10/2021 11:12

There was I thinking that the concern was about the real life impact on women.

Indeed. These 'feminists' are not in the least bit interested in the impact of austerity on women, about discrimination in the workplace, or even about the 98+% of sexual offences committed by men. They're more focused on the

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:12

Actually I am waiting for you to tell us what direct experience you have with the finalization of the crime stat records.

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:14

And fuck! Those feminists can only focus on one thing at a time!

You all should be looking at this squirrel

—>

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 27/10/2021 11:16

Entering something correctly 97 times out of 100 is actually a really really high rate of accuracy. 436 errors in ten thousand cases is good, not bad.

Have you got any evidence for this, or is it just something you made up?

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:20

The line is building I see, waiting for any evidence that robin has any credibility at all.

And then maybe robin can inform the MoJ the correct figures that they have not been able to collate. Or to at least provide them with the reason why they have no stats to answer the questions they are asked.

And maybe, just maybe the people that have gone through and researched the actual number of trans people committing crimes recorded as female might be onto the right information and robin has nothing to support their credibility but fat fingers and tin foil hats…

robinr66 · 27/10/2021 11:20

Decisions on which prison someone should be put in are not made based on a reporting box ticked on a CPS system. If the CPS recorded a 65 year old as an 11 year old, you think they just shrug their shoulders and shove them in a young offenders institution?

The point about the MoJ not knowing their own offender population is exactly the point I'm making - you're assuming that this is malice when error is vastly more likely.

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:22

I am assuming that policy has meant that male crimes are recorded as female crimes. Deliberately. Because that is the policy for those police departments and other departments.

You are putting it down to clerical error.

PlanDeRaccordement · 27/10/2021 11:22

There was I thinking that the concern was about the real life impact on women. What about the impact on women who are being locked up with male rapists and sexual assailants?

Well given that women “rape” other convicted criminal women with broom handles, fists, and other objects more physically damaging than a penis, I personally think adding a few penii to the array of women’s prison rape weapons is not an issue in the top 100 of feminist issues.

KaycePollard · 27/10/2021 11:23

You're assuming. Don't assume. It's dangerous not to find and correctly portray facts and statistics.

Professor Sullivan is a statistics expert @MildCreamyCheddar She is not 'assuming' - she is using her considerable research expertise in the field to require that published national statistics are indeed correct, and portray the situation correctly.

Helleofabore · 27/10/2021 11:23

And telling anyone who points out that it is done to accommodate people’s identities as tin foil hat conspiracy theory, stating that no male rapists or sex offenders have been recorded as female due to their gender identity.

IntermittentParps · 27/10/2021 11:26

IF loads more female women are being prosecuted for rape due to their role in assisting a penis person.

Then I have no doubt it would be big news. Because women doing crimes that are almost always committed by men get disproportionate attention by the media.

(With a great effect on the public of the idea it's more common than it is, while the men rarely get in the main news just for rape).

IntermittentParps · 27/10/2021 11:27

Forgot to add my own comment on that post Grin Blush
It was just 'Agree.'

Cailleach1 · 27/10/2021 11:28

[quote CorrBlimeyGG]There was I thinking that the concern was about the real life impact on women.

Indeed. These 'feminists' are not in the least bit interested in the impact of austerity on women, about discrimination in the workplace, or even about the 98+% of sexual offences committed by men. They're more focused on the