Labour's batshit opinions on women's rights

[PronounssheRa]

Conference season is highlighting some interesting opinions from Labour mps on women's rights (although when asked about women's rights they always turn this into a discussion on trans issues)

I thought it would be useful to collate into one thread, feel free to add.

Starmer 'Only women have a cervix' is, "Something that should not be said."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4359097-Starmer-on-Marr-now

This one will come as no surprise

Bumped into lisa nandy last night in the bar, briefly. She said "I start from the position that TWAW" The interesting bit about this is not "TWAW" It's "I start from the position that..." I just said: 'Why?' We didn't get much further.

twitter.com/runthinkwrite/status/1442589999602470925

@impossibletoday

Lucy Powell on the Fair Play for women twitter account. I do not know how to link, sorry.

Thank you

This is a brilliant thread. Depressing but bloody brilliant.

Thank you for the idea, OP, and thank you for your input, fellow “cervix-havers” 😱

[quote PronounssheRa]This one will come as no surprise

Bumped into lisa nandy last night in the bar, briefly. She said "I start from the position that TWAW" The interesting bit about this is not "TWAW" It's "I start from the position that..." I just said: 'Why?' We didn't get much further.

twitter.com/runthinkwrite/status/1442589999602470925[/quote]
Nandy is a good example of can't reason yourself out of something you didn't reason yourself into.

Her entire view on this is formed on the basis of a family in her constituency who have a male child who identifies as a girl. She obviously feels sorry for them and it's triggered an emotional response.

Which is all well and good, we can all feel emotional at heart wrenching stories of struggle but her logic (or lack of it) is because she feels a certain way about this one child then the entire of the female population of the UK should therefore lose their sex based rights. Female sport should be ended and male rapists and murderers should be placed in prisons with female inmates.

It's insane to watch such a lack of critical thought at play. The country needs better MPs than this.

It's good that Katie Dolatowski wasn't in her constituency, how could she possibly choose which child to feel sorry for (sarcasm)

I think it's batshit & really interesting. If you assume they win the next GE and these are the high profile party members, who would you have confidence in as individuals to be in charge of health, home office, women & equalities and justice?

Do none of them think this anti-women, anti-science gobbledegook is going to be quoted back at them when they want to present a policy with gravitas? Some have shot reputations they've taken years to earn.

@Deliriumoftheendless

My (Labour controlled) town is trying to pull itself out of high unemployment, high rates of teen pregnancy, very high rates of permanent exclusions from schools, high rates of male suicide, food banks, homeless people on the increase, businesses folding and low wages but yeah, the most important thing is minding who you say has a cervix.

If you dont get why women want rights and respect and safety in their society, why are you on the feminism board?

You're correct, OvaHere. I feel like Lisa Nandy has pledged her allegiance to this one family and promised them her unfailing support. It's the 'I have a lovely trans friend' narrative which underpins her entire attitude towards policy.

She is so blinkered, it is dangerous. I know people who could drink alcohol and drive perfectly well afterwards. We don't base drink driving policy on the people who are really good at driving while drink. For good reason!

Drunk not drink...

If you dont get why women want rights and respect and safety in their society, why are you on the feminism board?

I think that was maybe a criticism of Labour for their priorities?

This is so much reminding me of the end of the 1978 film Invasion of the Body Snatchers - it's a shock when you expect a fellow human and you get a programmed pod person. I’ve stopped my direct debit and cancelled my membership. Now politically homeless.

Sod the Tories,Labour and the rest. We need an adult human female political group. We can call it 'Woman'.

@DysonSphere ^'I agree there is something quite sinister going on. I have seen politicians resign for compromises that were far less personally taxing. Exactly HOW are they getting so many intelligent, forthright women (women who have had children and know the hard core reality of pushing something large through a cervix) to trot out this line? One imagines one or two would refuse and sit out on the back benches rather than compromise to this degree. But no. They'd rather look like idiots and throw women under the bus, ostensibly for their positions.
These are not women without power. Women one payment away from eviction or going hungry or having no money to top up their electricity key, women who have to keep quiet in order to survive. No. These are women with resources, networks, and impressive CVs.
I don't understand it.'^

I can honestly say I dont know if there are sinister forces behind this movement or not, which is prity scary if you think about it.
But on the toic of privilaged people being in hock to the fear of losing their privilage, I think that is behind why a lot of politicians are toeing such an insane line, espicially on the left.
People who go in to politics will have had the ambition since childhood and worked all their lives to achieve a position, making the right contacts, charming and impressing the right people, and even then there is a lot of luck about it. So I guess they feel they are owed this position by the time they get to be an MP.
They also think this will blow over/no one cares much about women/ the trans lobby is very powerful and that is not going away any time soon, all these things combined make sure they dont speak out, espicially when Rosie Duffield is held up as an example.

Labour need to be punished, and punished hard at the polls (LP member speaking here)

Also the fact that women are punished much harder (and their position is likly more precarious anyway) than men is also a factor.

Also David Lammy is a f&king scm bag. As a black MP in Labour he knows he is in a privilaged position and could speak out without much cost.
Instead he is leading the charge.

@FurzeMinister 'So, for whose benefit is Labour performing this pantomime?'

That is a very very good question. If we knew the answer to that maybe this would all be a lot clearer.

My (Labour controlled) town is trying to pull itself out of high unemployment, high rates of teen pregnancy, very high rates of permanent exclusions from schools, high rates of male suicide, food banks, homeless people on the increase, businesses folding and low wages but yeah, the most important thing is minding who you say has a cervix.

And again for those at the back of the room

• If you cant define what a woman is - you can't help those people with a cervix who are pregnant as teenagers

-If you cant define what a woman is - you can't help those people without a cervix with high suicide rates -If you can't define what a woman is you can't have female political, social, economic representation - No women's sports, rape shelters, hospital wards - for safety privacy and dignity. Women and girls will have no spaces free of men and boundaries, safeguarding and empowerment will be reframed as bigotry. The needs of adult males are prioritised over the safety of girls.

-If what a woman is is hateful and shouldn't be said, then that makes women hateful and shouldn't be heard.

If politicians refuse to define what a woman is - when they know all of the electorate know exactly what one is - how can they be in charge of the NHS and provide safe healthcare for both women and men.

If politicians are so spineless to point out basic biological facts, how are they going to negotiate with China, Russia, Iran etc...

Politicians lie. That is what is expected. Every single one of them knew they were lying and knew that we knew they were lying. But for them to make us believe that 2+2=5 and that we are the bigots for not believing it - what else are they going to insist that we believe when in power? This is not about preventing foodbanks anymore - clearly I wish people did not need them - it is about preventing dystopia.

David Lammy is a very privileged man and has been for most of his life, long before he became an MP. I always liked him but I am so disappointed in him now. He has turned out to be a privileged, misogynist male, just like all the others.

@EdgeOfACoin

I've written to my Labour MP expressing my concern about these issues and asking her to confirm that she will stand up for women's right to single-sex spaces.

I would suggest that everyone write to their MP. Make it clear that this is something that matters to women.

Already have, twice. Got now response. I guess Im lucky tho, as friends had had the 'trans are the most marginalised' response. I actually thought she was better than that. I will be holding my nose and voting tory untill any other party can name a woman as a woman.

Obviously, this is batshit and infuriating. But I'm still unclear about why Labour is doing this. Have they decided this isn't a vote loser or that on balance, keeping younger/urban voters and members on board is more important than our votes? Does their polling suggest that most people don't care about this enough to change votes?

Either way, the strategy seems bonkers to me given the seats they'll need to win. Am I missing something?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

If you dont get why women want rights and respect and safety in their society, why are you on the feminism board?

I think that was maybe a criticism of Labour for their priorities?

Opps, sorry to Delirium. I missunderstood. Iv just cancelled my membership and am feeling a bit all over the place.

Lucy Powell, another one bites the dust.

"....some of the most abused, marginalised, scared, suicidal..." (etc etc etc)

Iv just cancelled my membership and am feeling a bit all over the place.

I think you're probably in good company on this thread I left in 2019

@Deliriumoftheendless

My (Labour controlled) town is trying to pull itself out of high unemployment, high rates of teen pregnancy, very high rates of permanent exclusions from schools, high rates of male suicide, food banks, homeless people on the increase, businesses folding and low wages but yeah, the most important thing is minding who you say has a cervix.

Well yes because it tells us a hell of a lot about the politicians and the party eg any of the following...

They have lost touch with reality.
They are willing to say whatever they think will make them popular.
They are not critical thinkers.
They are unwilling to engage in debate by first listening to their opponents views.
.... etc

This issue is a litmus test for who many of us would vote for BECAUSE it shows up the difference between those willing to engage and those who simply dismiss opposing views.

Back in the Blair days, Labour comms was a tightly run ship. Alastair Campbell would decide the exact wording of the party line and no MP could deviate from it publicly. Anyone who did was taken out the back and shot (metaphorically).

Amazing to see them all floundering like this. I think it's partly because some of them are too stupid to understand what the debate is about, too incurious to find out, and too frightened of trans activists to deviate from the new orthodoxy.