Starmer on Marr now

[Jaysmith71]

We must have a tolerent debate.... Trans community are the most marginalised community of all

....and 'Only women have a cervix' is, "Something that should not be said."

I can't believe Starmer used to be a lawyer, he seems terrified of confrontation.
And to whoever said it was like listening to undercooked pudding.

As Charlie's post indicates, this has been a Labour stance for some time, and is not going away. They are determined to push through Self ID.

It makes you wonder who is funding them? The push for this must have come from somewhere.

Apologies to @Jaysmith71 @OvaHere - I have reading problems and mis read the opening para. I have asked MNHQ to delete my post.

The SDP think only women have a cervix

twitter.com/SDPhq/status/1442125257486180366

and so does Sajid Javid

twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1442082718402154498

Don't worry about it, @ChristinaXYZ, I've had some spectacular comprehension accidents on MN. You've done the right thing - a polite 'oops' and move on.

The SDP have some interesting policies but I would like them to clarify their ideas about "traditional family life" before I could ever get on board with them. For example, they wa t to build more social housing (great!) and allocate it to married families(hmmm).

They don't tend to run here, anyhow.

@ChristinaXYZ

Apologies to *@Jaysmith71* *@OvaHere* - I have reading problems and mis read the opening para. I have asked MNHQ to delete my post.

No problem. It's easy to misread to something.

*something -not to something.

Apparently it's easy to mistype too

I think the rest of your post was interesting ChristinaXYZ. I think it would be worth reposting it with the opening paragraph(s?) cut out. Spoiling my vote feels like as far as I could go at the moment but I absolutely take your point.

I'm definitely watching the SDP but the chances are they wouldn't put up a candidate here anyway.

Handing it to the feckin Tories on a plate.
Angela Raynor as good as described anyone who broke their heart and voted Tory in the last election as "scum". Starmer's idea of a reasonable debate is to shut down women and let trans extremists talk to themselves.

The thing is, I do not need nor expect Keir Starmer, as leader of the opposition, to be the ultimate arbiter on whether “only women have a cervix” is transphobic or not. He wants a respectful debate? This is the debate, Keir, and if you want the debate to happen, it is highly inappropriate for you to support one side of it, don’t you think?

How hard would it have been to answer something like: “Andrew, it is not for me to decide whether that statement constitutes transphobia or not, the issue here is that many people define women and men by biological sex, and do not consider that any sense of identity can change a person’s sex, no matter how distressing that may sadly be for an individual; other people, however, believe that whether a person is a woman or a man (or, indeed, a non-binary person) is a matter of personal gender identity entirely separate from their physical body or natal biology. That is the debate Andrew, the plurality of views within our society on gender and sex. It would not be right for me, as leader of the Labour Party, to be judging the acceptability of these views when expressed respectfully in debate; my job should be to find a way forward that enables us as a party to come together from all angles of this debate, to both support transgender people in fighting any discrimination and harrassment that they face; whilst at the same time, importantly, exploring how we can properly, effectively safeguard women and girls from the epidemic of male violence we are experiencing in this country at the present time, and whether, and how, certain specific single sex spaces may be a justified part of that.”

I mean politicians don’t answer the question all the bloody time. Why couldn’t he not answer the question in a way which shows he actually understands the fucking issue at least.

#cwen4leader

Cwenthryth that's a much better answer!

It's genuinely sad to see how upset some Labour voters and ex-Labour voters are about this, on this thread and elsewhere. I think there's a certain amount of grasping at straws going on, I don't say that to be rude; Starmer has clearly picked his side and we're not it.

I can see why some people will never vote Tory, and I respect that, that was me for many years. But if the Tories row back on some of the damage that has been done and state women are adult human females instead of some mysterious essence of femininity or indeed just a feeling in a man's head then I'll vote for them. And I won't feel guilty, because Labour are intentionally making themselves unelectable and therefore unable to help vulnerable people.

If Starmer really wanted to get into power and change lives for the better he would avoid alienating women. Of course then once in power he could sell us all down the river, but he's not going to get into power if he carries on like this, no matter what Boris does in the meantime.

#CwenForLeader

You'd have my vote!

@Cwenthryth that’s a perfect answer, have you ever thought of going into politics? I’d vote for you #cwen4leader

How hard would it have been to answer something like:......

It seems very hard, which suggests there is a real climate of fear in the party.

This is erm.... educational!

twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1442084962954481668?s=20

I think there's a certain amount of grasping at straws going on, I don't say that to be rude; Starmer has clearly picked his side and we're not it.
You're not being rude, you are absolutely correct and I am guilty as charged.

@littlbrowndog

It’s not trans issues

It’s women’s rights

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Emmm. Well it’s not that simple is it? What happens when the rights of one group clashes with the wishes of another? In centre left politics they usually side with the smaller group because small vulnerable groups generally need the protection more than a group that’s 51% of the population. This is just left wing politics 101 which is why trans rights is supported by every single centre left party. Feminists tend to vote for these parties and get what they vote for. Kier Stammer is just saying what I would expect any Labour leader to say.

Ideas like the wishes of the majority coming first are things that tend to be found of the centre right.

[quote FOJN]This is erm.... educational!

twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1442084962954481668?s=20[/quote]

Any chance of a screenshot for the blocked?

He's a TRA. No woman can trust a man who denies her biological reality. He clearly hates having to support women has no intention of saying the word "woman" in relation to a cervix or any other aspect of our unique biology, and only wants to talk exclusively about men's rights to women's spaces. He is showing us who he is, believe him.

This is India's tweet Alekto

I have a cervix. Get checked by the NHS every few years. Demeaning talking about it @AndrewMarr9. You absolutely know this a work-around way of calling women who are T men, leading into all the other bigotry. #Marr

Perhaps India believes that India also has a uterus.

India believes India has a cervix? The mind boggles!

But but…..if India believes India is a woman, and India believes India has a cervix, why does India have a problem with the statement “women have a cervix”?!?!

The "not right" was where Marr cut him off. He continues by saying "Oh, Andrew, I don’t think that we can just go through various things that people have said"

The entire question was about the misogynistic threats that Rosie Duffield has received, and the fact that it's too dangerous for her to go to conference, because of what she said.

Strewth. Talk about the stereotypical politician's answer, of not addressing the issue.

I can't take the stupidity any longer. I'm going to explode.

@BaronessWrongCrowd

Can someone please explain to me how the ‘Trans community are the most marginalised community of all.’

From where I stand this ‘community’ has the ear of and funding from governments, political parties, major institutions, schools, big businesses, charities, the police, healthcare, big tech - social media. Laws are in the process and have been changed, mainly at the detriment of other groups. That doesn’t exactly sound marginalised to me.

I don’t believe for one second that the majority of transpeople agree with what is being demanded/done in their name. Why doesn’t Starmer listen to them? Why do the Labour Party not listen and just repeat false narratives?

Anyway. I will not vote for Labour ever again.
I’m hoping that Shahar Ali wins the leadership election for the Greens because at least I will be able to cast a vote and not spoil it like last time.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”