Andrew Marr, Lib Dem leader what is wrong with the phrase woman: adult human female

[FemaleAndLearning]

Sunday 19th Sept 925am.
He won't answer the question. Andrew Marr keeps pushing.

@Cerebelle, I linked to a tweet from @BBCPolitics tweeted specifically to draw attention to the Marr-Davey interview and it is drawing quite a bit of attention.

I think there might be a civil war brewing in the BBC. Take for example the very different views about impartiality of Tim Davie and Jess Brammar.

Yes it's also very interesting listening to Justin Webb on Today vs Evan Davies on PM talking about trans issues. Completely different ends of the scale.

@Saltovinegar

I would like Ed Davey and Mishy to explain how a cervical smear is performed on a trans woman and a prostate examination on a trans man.......I suspect the answer would be silence.

I know what Ed Davey and his ilk would do. He would hijack my total hysterectomy - a procedure only performed on women - to make some faux gotcha point about not all women needing smear tests and transwomxn being part of that group of women like there's some fucking equivalence between me and Eddie fucking Izzard.

He would hijack my total hysterectomy - a procedure only performed on women - to make some faux gotcha point about not all women needing smear tests

there truly comes a point when it's just got too silly to waste time engaging with. We might as well be unpacking the impact of goldfish on socialism.

Bravo to Charlie's post.

Clearly interviewers do need to be asking these questions. But isn't it encouraging that this is finally being addressed by Andrew Marr? We've all been discussing it for years and at last a prominent interviewer is taking it seriously. There'll have been plenty of women watching, thinking "What the actual...?"

@CharlieParley

I'd love to break this down with Ed:

A woman, in a forensic suite, having been raped. She has asked for a female examiner. Should her request be denied?

A group of teenage female swimmers in an open plan changing room, no cubicles, getting ready to train. Should a male adult be allowed to strip naked in front of them?

A Sikh woman, victim of domestic violence, seeking refuge. She not only needs a female-only space because she fears males at this point, she also needs it because she can only rejoin her culture without dishonour if the refuge is not a mixed-sex space. Should a male gain access despite her needs?

An elderly woman being fitted for a new bra in M&S. She expects a female bra fitter and would not otherwise be there. Should a male bra fitter be allowed in that changing room with her?

A computing club for girls at high school. Their teacher is determined to stop her female students being put off taking an interest in computer science by their male classmates denigrating them. Should male pupils be allowed in anyway?

There are many places and reasons where women and girls need to be away from men and boys. For privacy, dignity, safety. For consciousness raising, to be heard, to dare to speak, to learn, to fail and try again.

But the male leader of the LibDems doesn't want us to ever ever be allowed to have this. He feels no shame saying this. He feels righteous and entitled to proclaim what rights female people may be granted in his world.

For the sake of his fellow males.

If that's not a dictionary-worthy demonstration of male supremacy, I don't know what is.

And the answer would be…

“Transwomen are women. Trans people are the most marginalised in our society. Trans people have high rates of suicide. Trans rights are human rights. No debate. There is no conflict of rights. And most importantly if it wasn’t for Boris Johnson women wouldn’t even have imagined there is a problem in the first place.”

To be clear, I think many of the issues faced by non-gender-confirming males, whether they identify as woman are not, share the same roots as the sexism faced by females. If the genderist movement could only accept we are different, we would be such close allies.

Completely agree with this, it’s so frustrating!

@nauticant

One of the BBC twitter accounts isn't being shy about this:

twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1439512987220553730

It looks like some people in certain parts of the BBC are remembering that they are supposed to be operating to a charter.

Thanks for this link. It's horrific to hear Ed effectively say he is pro trans rights and pro equal rights (for men) and not bothered, therefore, about women's rights. He appears to have no sense of female oppression and disadvantage and is coming across as your classic bullish, arrogant and highly dangerous man. Why would anyone vote for a party which will sacrifice the rights of 50% of the population?

We don't watch live TV anymore, largely because of the media coverage about this subject, but I managed to find this which shows the abject stupidity of Ed Davey, when asked the very simple question by Andrew Marr. God help us, that we have politicians as bad as this.
If the link goes after a second click on it again and it will work.
The comments section is an absolute riot.

www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/pr5qt6/whats_wrong_the_phrase_women_adult_human_female/

It’s interesting reading the transcript, because the impression I got was of a man who is deeply uncomfortable with the position he actually holds and is battening down the hatches until the eye of the media roves elsewhere. “But look at what a SHIT Boris is!” He squawks, hoping that this will divert the focus elsewhere. These politicians know that it’s very hard to sell the idea that “woman” now refers to gender identity as opposed to sex , and so their strategy appears to be to grit their teeth and ignore the questions until they go away. I noticed that Davey said (rather hopefully) that people vote for political parties for all kinds of reasons. This is what he is banking on … the trans issue can be smuggled in with other policies because it’s not something that people will abandon the Lib Dem’s over . I don’t know if he’s right about that.

Ed Davey is the man who told Joanna Cherry to move to another seat on the Commons benches. What a charmer.

These politicians know that it’s very hard to sell the idea that “woman” now refers to gender identity as opposed to sex , and so their strategy appears to be to grit their teeth and ignore the questions until they go away.

So the question is why are they trying to sell it and for what purpose?

I noticed that Davey said (rather hopefully) that people vote for political parties for all kinds of reasons. This is what he is banking on … the trans issue can be smuggled in with other policies because it’s not something that people will abandon the Lib Dem’s over . I don’t know if he’s right about that.

Which issues are these?

Cos the LDs have made efforts to differentiate using this issue in particular. They aren't throwing people out of the party for differences of opinion on taxation or housing... And thats the notable thing.

He's spent the interview talking about the only thing people are now associating with the LDs and he, personally, keeps making that worse not better because every time someone says the word woman he automatically switches to talking about males... He can't help himself. He's so desperate to showcase his commitment to trans people he's happy to forget about women.

So the question is why are they trying to sell it and for what purpose?

I think it's partly because they're just genuinely scared to say "no" to a bunch of unhinged people.

But also they're aware that if they can get the unhinged people on-side then those unhinged people will be unhinged at potential opponents within the organisation on their behalf.

It's inserting yourself near the top of a sort of totalitarian control system. They don't get to be in control of the trans policies, but they win a sort of group loyalty versus outsiders as long as they say the right things on this irrelevant-to-them stuff. So they reckon they gain overall.

Other examples of this sort of dynamic - Nicola Sturgeon in the SNP, or George Bridges at Evergreen State College.

He's so desperate to showcase his commitment to trans people he's happy to forget about women. It's utterly baffling. perhaps they are conflating historical intolerance of homosexuality with intolerance of transsexual people.

If you don't give birth and aren't responsible for kids its a lot easier for you to take your student politics into middle age and take over a political party.

The reason transwomen have such a big influence in the LDs is the mirror image of why women leave political organisations.

Women are bullied and intimidated and silenced out of politics by males in numerous ways. The LDs just decided to institutionalise it into their party structure.

@derxa

He's so desperate to showcase his commitment to trans people he's happy to forget about women. It's utterly baffling. perhaps they are conflating historical intolerance of homosexuality with intolerance of transsexual people.

The trojan horse. Yes.

But I think it more to do with simply not giving a shit cos it doesn't affect him and he can use it to gain support in his party.

Many of the federal organisations and committees which make up the LDs have massive over representation of transwomen compared to the general population.

@Artichokeleaves

He would hijack my total hysterectomy - a procedure only performed on women - to make some faux gotcha point about not all women needing smear tests

there truly comes a point when it's just got too silly to waste time engaging with. We might as well be unpacking the impact of goldfish on socialism.

I've just had a full hysterectomy, I am now a person who does not menstruate and a non-cervix haver, I must therefore be a man.

I just can't understand how supposedly intelligent people are going along with this ridiculous ideology.

I actually think we would get more sense out of a goldfish.

And actually, @Saltovinegar, those of us women who have had a hysterectomy and had cervixes removed DO sometimes get invited for smears called vault smears, to take cells from the top of the vagina where the cervix adjoined, e.g. in cases of cervical cancer.

It's where biology meets medicine.

#Don'tHijackMyHysterectomy

Hope you're feeling ok, btw @Saltovinegar. My recovery was a bit checkered!

[quote Cam77]@Theeyeballsinthesky
Because if there’s no such thing as women, as females, then how can they be protected in any meaningful way?
Because we are all people and all people should feel safe and protected from violence and poverty under the law/in a decent and civilized society.

I’d rather we spend the next decade focusing on stopping violent men commiting domestic violence against women, rather than getting tongue tied about whether that 1 victim in 1000 should have been described as a transwoman /female/male woman/Sheman or whatever the hell.[/quote]
It's not us getting tongue tied.

Ask newspaper editors, police reporters, CPS, judges why they follow guidelines that make it impossible to state the real sex of a man who has raped or assaulted someone if he says he is a woman.

If we cannot point at every single violent male and say "he is an offender" then how do we focus on men who are violent? Some men won't be included in that focus for no other reason than they say they are a woman.

And that is not conjecture or any kind of fantasy, whataboutery or ridiculous posturing. It has happened, in this country, and is doubtless happening right now somewhere in the UK.

I'd much rather we could identify violent men and punish them as men, regardless of the words they use to obfuscate their crime.

This is probably the most serious threat to women in the UK in over a century.

I agree with this and have become a single-issue voter as a result. Whichever party opposes genderism will get my vote.

Simply because any other damaging policies are easier to undo afterwards than this will be. And I say that as someone who was vehemently anti-Tory for most of her life. If the Conservative Party is the only one that will guarantee that women will continue to exist in law separate from men with genderfeels, then I will vote for them.

@SpindleWhorl

And actually, *@Saltovinegar*, those of us women who have had a hysterectomy and had cervixes removed DO sometimes get invited for smears called vault smears, to take cells from the top of the vagina where the cervix adjoined, e.g. in cases of cervical cancer.

It's where biology meets medicine.

#Don'tHijackMyHysterectomy

Hope you're feeling ok, btw @Saltovinegar. My recovery was a bit checkered!

I'm fine thank you, my female body recovered well. I now await the growth of a penis since I am no longer a cervix haver

Just emailed [email protected] to tell Ed Davey why many women will not be voting for his party whilst this is the point of view.

That transcript 🤯

Ed is asked a question about women, his reply is a wafflefest of incoherent nonsense about trans people.

If your party is going to hold a position that women should have no single sex spaces then you really need to clearly articulate why. Ed failed miserably.

Just remembered when Ed Davey showed his contempt of women in the House of Commons and terfed turfed Joanna Cherry out of her seat because he's a bully and she holds GC views. His anti-woman activism is long-standing twitter.com/leakylike/status/1407681062617112585?s=20