James Esses Case - Evidence-based therapy

[RoastChicory]

There has been an update from James Esses, who was suspended from his psychotherapy course as he set up a petition to make sure therapists were allowed to explore issues with gender dysphoria patients and not simply affirm the patient’s self-diagnosis.

Shockingly, it appears that the U.K. psychotherapists association put pressure to expel James from the course. They are therefore also now part of the case. If James wins, this would set a very important message to similar associations.

Email copied below

Update on Expelled from my university course for holding gender critical views

Dear Supporters,

Thanks to the overwhelming support I received from my original crowdfunding, my lawyers have now been able to draft and lodge my claim. My lawyers are Akua Reindorf, who wrote the Reindorf review into the treatment by Essex University of its gender critical staff, and Peter Daly of Doyle Clayton Solicitors, who acted for Maya Forstater in the appeal that established gender critical beliefs such as mine as being protected from discrimination.

My claim is in the Employment Tribunal, because both of the Respondents provide workplace qualifications. These are litigated in the Employment Tribunal because of section 53 of the Equality Act 2010.

The First Respondent is Metanoia. The acts of discrimination I am litigating are set out in my original crowdfunding page.

The Second Respondent is UKCP, the United Kingdom Council for Psychotherapy. This is the main registration body for councillors and psychotherapists in the UK. These are not regulated professions, so they don’t have a regulator in the same way that Doctors have the General Medical Council, or solicitors have the Solicitors Regulation Authority. But UKCP is in many ways a quasi-regulator, because registration with the UKCP (or one other counterpart) is required in order to qualify formally as a counsellor or psychotherapist.

It has come to light in Subject Access Request responses that UKCP were far more involved in Metanoia’s actions towards me than I had previously realised. Metanoia were liaising with UKCP, who were putting pressure on Metanoia in how they dealt with me. My claim is therefore also against UKCP, on the basis that its actions instructed, caused or induced Metanoia’s discrimination against me, as well as those actions being discriminatory against me in their own right. As with Metanoia, I am litigating against UKCP on the basis that it is a qualifications body, but also on the basis that it is a Trade Association – both of these are within the Employment Tribunal’s jurisdiction under the Equality Act 2010.

This is, as far as I am aware, the first claim for gender critical belief discrimination brought against a registration body or quasi-regulator like UKCP. This is therefore an important case because it will have relevance for other regulators and other regulated professions.

@anaily

I'm sure no one here is qualified, hardly any know what non binary or trans is.

@anaily

People here do understand. Most of us have direct experience with self, friends and family, and/or have spent time educating ourselves.

Because of this, we know that there are lots of different and sometimes contradictory definitions of sex, gender and transgender being used even amongst those who class themselves as allies or even identify as trans themselves.

So when people ask you what sex is, or gender, or a woman, or non-binary, or a trans woman, or anything else you are being asked about it, it is not because they do not know or understand, but because they want to know which of the many definitions in circulation you are using, so that the conversation can be based on shared understanding.

@anaily

I'm sure no one here is qualified, hardly any know what non binary or trans is.

We know what it means, dear. Perhaps you should read more and post less.

@anaily

I'm sure no one here is qualified, hardly any know what non binary or trans is.

Do feel free to educate us ignoramuses, then.

It's almost always TRA posters who mention toilets. Because it's an easy way to ridicule women's concerns about the erosion of single sex spaces. We get 'they just need to pee!!', 'it'll never happen!!', 'are you going to have genital inspectors at the doors?!' etc etc etc.

On the subject of prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic violence refuges, those same posters go very, very quiet. Many TRA posters have been asked repeatedly to comment on the Wi Spa incident (you know, a sexual predator who took advantage of self id) but just avoid the question.

Given gender ideology is the epitome of luxury, privileged views, the comment above about 'privileged people on here' is truly ridiculous.

*Well I'm certainly not privileged. I live in a council flat in one of the roughest cities in the UK, and am very used to having to clean up other people's shit, mainly the drug paraphernalia the prick and his mates that live underneath me leave in the communal hallway (that's after they've kept us awake all night with the shouting, fighting, music), so maybe stop the sneering. You know nothing about the women who post here, or their reasons for doing so.

And toilets aren't the 'major issue' here, which you'd realise if you'd bother listening. Major issues are vulnerable women (you know, unprivileged ones) being locked up in prison with convicted rapists and male sex offenders, victims of rape having nowhere male free to go when they desperately need help, women's refuges, hospital wards, sports, etc. But sure, all we care about is toilets hmm*

While raising tens of thousands, that money could be used to help improve lives, yet it's being used to get a guy back into his course, because feminism?
How is putting money into religious lawyers who have spent their entire life fighting women's rights going to help feminist?

People here do understand. Most of us have direct experience with self, friends and family, and/or have spent time educating ourselves.

Because of this, we know that there are lots of different and sometimes contradictory definitions of sex, gender and transgender being used even amongst those who class themselves as allies or even identify as trans themselves.

So when people ask you what sex is, or gender, or a woman, or non-binary, or a trans woman, or anything else you are being asked about it, it is not because they do not know or understand, but because they want to know which of the many definitions in circulation you are using, so that the conversation can be based on shared understanding*
That makes sense.

*It's almost always TRA posters who mention toilets. Because it's an easy way to ridicule women's concerns about the erosion of single sex spaces. We get 'they just need to pee!!', 'it'll never happen!!', 'are you going to have genital inspectors at the doors?!' etc etc etc.

On the subject of prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic violence refuges, those same posters go very, very quiet. Many TRA posters have been asked repeatedly to comment on the Wi Spa incident (you know, a sexual predator who took advantage of self id) but just avoid the question.

Given gender ideology is the epitome of luxury, privileged views, the comment above about 'privileged people on here' is truly ridiculous. * That's because it's always in the media with changing rooms and toilets, pick any article and that's the gist of the article. And more recently causing trouble and getting kicked out. You don't have the best reputation anywhere.

You don't have the best reputation anywhere.

Pfft, in your silly little bubble maybe.

My opinion: prisons - they can be held in their own cell, rape crisis centres - they would be the as they would have also been raped so they need that help and support, domestic violence refuges - they would also be there as they are escaping domestic violence. They deserve the help and support they need when in that situation. Anyone threatening other service users should be removed.
The Wii spa, whoever exposed themselves should be charged and dealt with as any other person who exposes themselves.

Well I see my posts about actual, you know, real life experience have been completely ignored.

So you believe trans prisoners should be held in solitary confinement and trans people should not be allowed naked in places where women and children are present?

I’m quite surprised by some of those responses.

While raising tens of thousands, that money could be used to help improve lives, yet it's being used to get a guy back into his course, because feminism?

It's protecting our children from an ideology that would sterilise them and have them on hormones for the rest of their lives for liking the ''wrong'' fucking toys and clothes, or for being gay or lesbian.

You don't have the best reputation anywhere.

Want to talk about reputation? How about the people that threaten to murder women, punch women, stab women, curb stomp women, bomb women, rape women, post porn at children, victim blame 9yo victims of a sex offender in the name of ''trans rights''? But sure, some women got thrown out of a pub by a bigot, burn the witches 🙄

Going back to the thread theme, he is well on the way to meeting his stretch target. It's gained ten grand since I last looked. That must have only been a couple of days ago.

The other thing is that james' legal team is impressive. Its difficult to know what cases to back, but a good legal team is always a good sign.

You don't have the best reputation anywhere.

Dude, I can't talk for the other posters on this board but I don't give a shiny shit if people think badly of me. I'm judging the hell out of everyone who ever put a man in a women's prison, rape shelter, shortlist or toilet. Who wheedle, cajole and finally threaten women who don't shut up, #bekind or ignore reality.

And I'm judging the hell out of you, little man. We see you.

It's becoming more and more clear how uninformed you are about the safeguarding issues around what's been mentioned.

Prisons 'held in their own cell' - what all the time, for their entire incarceration period? What about leisure time, meals, exercise? Should they have a warden with them for every second they are with the female inmates?

Rape crisis centres - many women have talked about the extreme triggers they have around male voices and bodies after being raped. They need single sex spaces. Transgender people who have been raped of course deserve to access services but not at the expense of the wellbeing of women who need single sex spaces. Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre no longer offer any single sex spaces. At all.

Domestic violence refuges are mostly used by women and children. Many safeguarding rules in domestic violence refuges revolve around not letting males into such buildings, to protect the women and children who have sought refuge there.

Wi Spa incident - the police initially said there was no crime. It was only when the man's past came to light that anything was done. What if a sex offender has no previous conviction? The argument by TRA's was that, had it been a transwoman exposing themselves, it wouldn't have been the same as it would have been a 'lady dick' (not my words).

You don't have the best reputation anywhere.

You're on the side of this - www.terfisaslur.com

I'm OK with my reputation. I'm not on the side of people issuing rape and death threats.

MMA sports are dangerous by nature and should be outright banned imo. The individuals involved can assess the risk and choose not to fight.

And if people cannot accurately assess their risk because they are unaware their opponent is a MALE, their consent is effectively negated.

If you really cannot accept that people choose to play these sports that is your issue and you should not be conflating your non-sports agenda with the significantly increased risk of allowing males into the sport.

That is classic distraction and misdirection.

Just answer whether or not you believe that males should be competing against females in a category where the female expects to only be competing against another female with female physical limitations.

Do you or don’t you?

I’ve just donated to Jame Esses case because I care about children suffering from gender dysphoria and want them to get the best possible psychological and medical care for them rather than simply affirmation without investigating underlying reasons

@Nellodee

So you believe trans prisoners should be held in solitary confinement and trans people should not be allowed naked in places where women and children are present?

I’m quite surprised by some of those responses.

as I said, I think anailly is either very young or very ignorant.

@anaily

My opinion: prisons - they can be held in their own cell, rape crisis centres - they would be the as they would have also been raped so they need that help and support, domestic violence refuges - they would also be there as they are escaping domestic violence. They deserve the help and support they need when in that situation. Anyone threatening other service users should be removed. The Wii spa, whoever exposed themselves should be charged and dealt with as any other person who exposes themselves.

Solitary confinement for transwomen is a novel TRA argument, i must say 🤣

@anaily

My opinion: prisons - they can be held in their own cell, rape crisis centres - they would be the as they would have also been raped so they need that help and support, domestic violence refuges - they would also be there as they are escaping domestic violence. They deserve the help and support they need when in that situation. Anyone threatening other service users should be removed. The Wii spa, whoever exposed themselves should be charged and dealt with as any other person who exposes themselves.

Those women who have been raped may need to process what they have been through without anyone male around, in any role, whether as fellow survivor or counsellor.

And don't you think it's rather transphobic to confine a trans prisoner to their cell, 24 hours a day, even if they are a rapist. Much safer to keep female prisons single sex.

It's genuinely painful watching certain posters fail time and again to answer questions about things they claim to believe yet can't explain, and questions asking them to simply clarify their own thoughts on their own statements.

It's very eye opening.

I first came here expecting the "other side " to take the opportunity to present their argument, maybe acknowledge any problematic areas and try to put across a coherent example of what specifically they think and what they are trying to achieve, define any confusing terms or concepts so we can all be on the same page when we discuss. I have very rarely seen it. Trans men who have posted here tend to just say they keep out of all the politics and they just have plain old gender dysphoria.

I started posting here because I saw glaring contradictions and conflicts and wanted to know how they fit together. It seems that other posters are equally confused but pretend they're not, and clearly aren't bothered by that, even when it increases risk to women and girls.

I couldn't live with that. Be sure of what you (general you, not anyone specific) believe enough to explain it, or acknowledge that you don't know how to reconcile conflicting beliefs. And we all see when you go for the lazy deflection or insult.

The Wii spa, whoever exposed themselves should be charged and dealt with as any other person who exposes themselves.

Do you mean "expose" as in get naked in a nude spa? How are these people dealt with? What specifically are you advocating - zero consequences, or something else?

My opinion: prisons - they can be held in their own cell

Right, but that's not going to happen. It's ''against their human rights'' to have no access to vulnerable women. They ''need'' to be validated by mingling with women (according to the MoJ judicial review). Funnily enough, mingling with other transwomen doesn't scratch that itch 🤔

There should be a trans wing in the male estate, and they can keep them safe in the same way they keep other at risk prisoners in the male estate safe.

domestic violence refuges - they would also be there as they are escaping domestic violence. They deserve the help and support they need when in that situation. Anyone threatening other service users should be removed.

It's all well and good saying that problematic people can be removed, but what about the women that will avoid going in the first place if the refuge is mixed sex? The women who will avoid rape crisis centres because they'll be called a transphobic bigot if they ask to be dealt with by a natal woman?

Of course trans people deserve help and support, but policies that put women off seeking the help and support they need isn't the answer.

anaily do you think it's OK for victims of rape and sexual assault to ask for a same sex medical examiner or therapist after an assault? Because according to the CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre its transphobic to do so, they are bigoted and need "re-educating". They have actively campaigned for change to prioritise trans rights over rape victims rights and in Scotland if the new gender recognition act goes through women will lose the right to request an adult human female as there medical examiner. Shocking.

Do you think hats OK?

You answered my post of

Do you understand that ‘body autonomy’ also means that the patient needs to have full disclosure of the risks of the treatment they are about to undertake?

Can you explain how a young teenager can understand they are signing up for the highly likelihood of life limiting and potentially shortening treatment? Please link us up to evidence that they understand this. Can I suggest a great place to start is the ‘evidence’ presented by the Tavistock and GIDs at the Bell vs Tavistock case. You can see exactly what evidence there is that an under 18 year old has 100% the capacity to do this.

With…

By a lawyer that has been trying to remove women's rights (abortion) and children's rights (gillick) his entire life, once you check the lawyers history get back to me.

So… his ‘entire life’. Your reliance on hyperbole is apparent again. Just like your weak attempts at distraction.

Was this barrister allocated these cases by their chambers or sought them? Do you have proof that the barrister had any choice in taking the cases you specified.

If not, you are merely accusing a barrister from doing their job. Well done.

You are funding religious people who have dedicated their life to removing rights. That's something i don't want to be associated with, you are free to fund such people.

This is more of that misinformation and prejudiced generalisations. You know that generalisation of this type is actually against the posting guidelines. You keep doing and you will probably start getting deleted for making such outlandish statements.