Rosie Duffield thank you

[Whatthechicken]

I haven’t seen another thread on this today and I know she must be on here - thank you Rosie!

Rosie on Twitter today:

twitter.com/rosieduffield1/status/1436276236049862661?s=21

Hope that’s a clicky link.

Despite the hate you may be getting Rosie, there is a legion behind you!

[merrymouse]

That's not what GRA reform is about and it would be illegal to falsely claim you are trans to access women's spaces, as alleged to commit further crimes.

If this were true it would suggest that somebody guilty of a sex crime against women would automatically be exempt from being treated as a woman by the prison service, and it would be acknowledged by all that the suspect in the wi spa case was a man. However that clearly isn’t the case.

[CatherinaJTV]

@merrymouse

Again, please explain how you would discern that somebody had illegally self ID’d.

IANAL, and this is not much elaborated on here in section 14

www.gov.scot/publications/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-consultation-scottish-government/pages/11/

[merrymouse]

Stonewall et al would also support a policy of gendering all men convicted of violent and abusive crimes against women as male.

[ArabellaScott]

Okay. So any male who says he is a woman is by definition not a bad person. It's impossible for a male to 'wrongly' self ID because that would be illegal so nobody would ever do it. Fab.

It's hard to say how much I admire Rosie Duffield for weathering the inevitable tirade of abuse and attack that will follow stating simple, basic truths that everybody, deep down, knows are correct. It is not possible to change sex, and males as a class will always present a risk for women, no matter how they say they 'identify'.

It is the most monumentally absurd position that we have somehow found ourselves in. Absurd and increasingly dangerous.

I'm scunnered that we don't have more politicians willing to stand up to this ridiculous ideology and state that gravity exists and the sky is blue.

[merrymouse]

IANAL, and this is not much elaborated on here in section 14

The legislation talks about somebody knowingly making a false declaration, but there is no explanation of what that means. Please explain how this would work in practice if gender is a completely subjective concept. What is false and what is true?

[OldCrone]

@CatherinaJTV that document doesn't explain how it could be proved that someone had made a false declaration. If the person insists that they are genuinely transgender and their declaration was true, how could anyone prove otherwise?

It's self-ID we're talking about here, not something which can be proved in a court of law.

[yourhairiswinterfire]

In any case - how are we to tell the difference? Wait and see if they assault someone?

Yeah, that's it, isn't it? It's the only way we can tell.

It seems prevention isn't better than cure after all

[CatherinaJTV]

@Sophoclesthefox

Can’t believe you’d quote a 2015 paper from the Government Equalities Office written by and under a Tory government, Catherina

I thought it was utterly unethical to work with Tories and it makes women complicit?

I don’t believe you did answer my question. I haven’t seen it. Never mind, I’m a very patient person, so I don’t mind at all posting it again you can c&p your previous answer if you like.

You scolded women for inviting Tory MSPs to engage with them at the protest last week. Tory MPs led the proposed reform of the GRA in England and Wales in 2018, and evidence gathering is still ongoing, headed by Tories. Quite a number of Tory MPs are very supportive to trans people.

Do you oppose this work being done by Tories? May we scold you? If not, why not?

I wasn't in front of Holyrood - I would not have let Tory MSPs stand with me and use me as a backdrop to make up "feminist" credentials. I don't know in how many ways I should phrase this. It is really quite clear.

[CatherinaJTV]

@merrymouse

IANAL, and this is not much elaborated on here in section 14

The legislation talks about somebody knowingly making a false declaration, but there is no explanation of what that means. Please explain how this would work in practice if gender is a completely subjective concept. What is false and what is true?

IANAL stands for "I am not a lawyer". Read the draft bill.

[lazylinguist]

This would be hilarious if it weren't so bloody awful. Come on then @CatherinaJTV - how do you prove someone is 'wrongly self-ID-ing'?

[Waitwhat23]

So why have you quoted a Tory document to back up your argument?

[334bu]

Yes it will be an offence to make a fraudulent declaration. However, as there is no definition of what it is to live as a woman in the bill , then how on earth can you say that someone is not complying with their declaration? As the bill stands the " penalty" for false declarations is impossible to impose as it will be impossible to prove there has been fraud.

[merrymouse]

I don't know in how many ways I should phrase this. It is really quite clear.

The question was about whether you supported the reforms to the GRA proposed by Maria Miller, or whether you would have rejected them because if her support for Conservative policies.

[Sophoclesthefox]

I wasn't in front of Holyrood - I would not have let Tory MSPs stand with me and use me as a backdrop to make up "feminist" credentials. I don't know in how many ways I should phrase this. It is really quite clear

It really isn’t, unless your point is that it’s only Scottish Tories that you think are beyond the pale, and Westminster Tories are A-OK, which makes no sense at all when you say your disapproval stems from the austerity years and the impact on women. That came from Westminster.

If you won’t support Tories, you should not be on board with the GRa reforms in E&W, which were instigated by Tories.

It’s really quite clear 😂

[CatherinaJTV]

@Waitwhat23

So why have you quoted a Tory document to back up your argument?

because it is the available guidance?

[Sophoclesthefox]

@Waitwhat23

So why have you quoted a Tory document to back up your argument?

Reasons!!

[merrymouse]

Read the draft bill.

I have read the draft bill. You might not be a lawyer but if you are referencing the bill in an argument you should be able to explain how you are interpreting it. I can only conclude that you don’t understand it.

[CatherinaJTV]

@Sophoclesthefox

I wasn't in front of Holyrood - I would not have let Tory MSPs stand with me and use me as a backdrop to make up "feminist" credentials. I don't know in how many ways I should phrase this. It is really quite clear

It really isn’t, unless your point is that it’s only Scottish Tories that you think are beyond the pale, and Westminster Tories are A-OK, which makes no sense at all when you say your disapproval stems from the austerity years and the impact on women. That came from Westminster.

If you won’t support Tories, you should not be on board with the GRa reforms in E&W, which were instigated by Tories.

It’s really quite clear 😂

As far as I know the E&W GRA reform is dead? I have linked to the Scottish one, I am a Scottish resident.

[middlingmess]

Thanks Rosie.
I'll be voting for you again

[334bu]

Well done Rosie Duffield for standing up for women's rights.

[Sophoclesthefox]

As far as I know the E&W GRA reform is dead? I have linked to the Scottish one, I am a Scottish resident.

Well, I’ve got good news for you, as you don’t seem to have kept up. The Women and Equalities select committee are still running an enquiry

committees.parliament.uk/work/658/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act/

It’s very far from clear to what extent Scotland can make alterations without Westminster on this topic. Would a self ID Scottish GRC be able to be used to make changes to documents issued in E&W, for example?

And you’ve dodged the question again 🤣 its hilarious.

[GreyhoundG1rl]

She's got the Politician's answer down pat.

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

@CatherinaJTV

People can tell what sex people are. It's an evolutionary trait. Women's politeness (and fear of causing a fuss/being threatened) has been mistaken for acceptance of a situation.

I am sorry, but that's bollocks. I was misgendered until my boobs became absolutely unignorable. My classmate B didn't grow boobs and had stuff thrown at her whenever we entered the women's changing rooms, even in her late teens. Butch/NGC women are mistaken for men all the time. "We can always tell" is just not a thing.

Did you complain to the shop staff/leisure centre staff about complete strangers throwing things at you?!

[mammajustkilledagnat]

How shocking for your friend. And shocking because I have never come across this before. Anyone else ever seen a women/female experiencing this behaviour? If I see a short-haired flat-chested person I can tell if they are male or female by their body shape and language once they have reached puberty. Weird for your friend.

[RedDogsBeg]

I think she is trans phobic, because she seems to equate access of trans women to women's spaces (which is legal now) as inherently dangerous.

It was certainly fucking dangerous for the 10 and 12 year old victims of Katie Dolatowski, who threatened them with a knife before sexually assaulting them and that was under the present system. Your view that you don't think it will be even easier under the reforms would be laughable if it wasn't so contemptible.