Not enjoying the Janey Godley pile on....

[rabbitwoman]

Haven't seen a thread on this, although there is a bit on the end of the NS thread at the moment.

But Godley was very outspoken against anyone questioning the trans rights agenda, and is someone who gleefully and happily reports, blocks and let's lose a barrage of very foul mouthed abuse to anyone who disagrees with her on twitter.

However, I am not enjoying her twitter take down this evening. I would much prefer a complete turn around and all the oldest voices to use this as an opportunity to call for a more reasonable debate.

.......

WRT to all the 50 Cent tweets, Godley was called out on it on that thread 2 years ago. She could have reflected on her behaviour then, apologised and deleted anything offensive, but she didn’t.

I don’t know whether she thought she was untouchable, or whether she thought it was “just banter”, or whether she thought it was an acceptable form of self-promotion.

It’s only now that she’s higher profile and been unmasked in a much more public way that she’s come over all contrite.

I don’t like the inference on this thread that we should ‘go high’ when faced absolutely vile behaviour from TRAs.
…
Like many here I’m not a fan of cancel culture but in her case I can’t muster up much sympathy.

Is it 'go high'? But then I don't know what some people have called for (aside from Hunter).

And, as for 'can't muster up much sympathy', isn't that behind every commenter who says, effectively: 'No, [Laurel Hubbard; the eviction of women from social media spaces; Forstater losing her job etc.] they're not good but I can't muster up much sympathy as women/feminists brought it on themselves'.

That said, would I sign the Chubby Brown petition - no.

I'm thinking my way through various matters and in no way am I proffering the thought terminating cliché of #BeKind. - I am, however, disturbed by those who are offering redemption in the absence of any knowledge as to whether personal apologies have been issued to those at the heart of Godley's abuse or orchestrated public scolding/humiliation etc.

My DOI is that I had no idea about Godley and the more that I learn about her, the more surprised that I am that nobody in Scots Gov. conducted any due diligence before deciding to award her public funds or choose her as a public-facing figure.

If the person was 20 and had posted these tweets 5 years before, one might forgive a childish rant but this was a middle aged woman slurring the disabled and people of colour.

She had zero self awareness to stop & think 'hang on, should I really go there?'

I think this is the most likely explanation. Some people splurge nasty stuff all the time but really don't seem to realise it has an affect on people or that they could be called out on it. My mum is the same! (completely different I realise but I do think many people just don't realise how awful they are.) Rude, hurtful, critical, racist, and on and on but when I stand up to her she's absolutely shocked that anyone could think she's not lovely.

I hope Godley does let it sink in this time but also, when cases like this do blow up, I hope it pulls other people up on their twitter tendencies too.

Oops effect

Baddiel referred to an anti-semitic tweet being fake, but not sure what that was, and whether it was the tweet itself or the account, as it's deleted.

Apparently there are some screenshots of blatantly anti-Semitic tweets being retweeted as part of JG's greatest hits but those are fake. The rest are not however, there are plenty of racist tweets from her to go around. Just be careful whether you take any particular tweet as gospel.

@OperationDessertStorm

“Removing them from communities” sounds sinister as fuck.

The new Cotton Mather. I think Godley will be OK though. She might be forced to read Judith Butler as a penance.

@QueenPeary

She had zero self awareness to stop & think 'hang on, should I really go there?'

I think this is the most likely explanation. Some people splurge nasty stuff all the time but really don't seem to realise it has an affect on people or that they could be called out on it. My mum is the same! (completely different I realise but I do think many people just don't realise how awful they are.) Rude, hurtful, critical, racist, and on and on but when I stand up to her she's absolutely shocked that anyone could think she's not lovely.

I hope Godley does let it sink in this time but also, when cases like this do blow up, I hope it pulls other people up on their twitter tendencies too.

Probably the main difference between Godley & your mum is that Godley has been pulled up on her words/comments/attitude multiple times in the past, publicly, and brushed them off every time. She's just (wrongly as it turns out) calculated that her schtick was worth sticking with as it brought her notoriety & exposure. She thought she was somehow untouchable as she carried that moral pitchfork alongside her tribe.

I think this is the most likely explanation. Some people splurge nasty stuff all the time but really don't seem to realise it has an affect on people or that they could be called out on it.

I think this is what the SNP are missing. They don’t see a problem with the pattern of behaviour as long as they agree with the targets.

I'm not saying they're the same but I DO think a lot of people have an incredible lack of empathy and understanding of how they come across. The moral pitchfork also convinces them that they are unassailably good, and it's just banter.

Again, that doesn't make it OK.

“These things happen, the important thing is that action has been taken, Janey has apologised, I think she’s been pretty straightforward and dignified in her apology. She’s a comedian, as she said herself she thought that gave her license to say things that she now accepts were completely out of order and unacceptable"

www.scotsman.com/news/people/janey-godley-hurtful-tweets-were-completely-unacceptable-says-nicola-sturgeon-but-apology-was-dignified-3378145

I have seen lot of people use words lime out of order and unacceptable about these tweets, why is it so hard to say they are racist. Nicola finds it easy enough to praise the apology.

Choosing JG to front a govt funded health campaign pretty much sums up the state of Scottish politics, the SNP and NS.
All of it is depressing beyond words.

Scottish Enlightenment, anyone?
How can NS and the SNP live and work in Edinburgh and not be constantly aware of the academic, intellectual and cultural giants who have gone before them and not feel utter shame about what they’re doing to Scotland.
Every time I think it’s impossible to set the bar lower, there’s another example of staggering stupidity, this being the latest in a long line.

Godley: This prompted a statement from Ms Godley on Twitter saying: “I deserve all the criticism that comes my way.” She also said that as an “outspoken comedian” she felt like she could get away with saying anything but that she was “completely wrong”.
…
Sturgeon: "She’s a comedian, as she said herself she thought that gave her license to say things that she now accepts were completely out of order and unacceptable.

This is reading as an integrated PR policy.

It is, however, wondering where Godley's thinking was on Linehan, or do comedy writers not qualify for the same pass as self-declared comedians.

If Marion Millar were to self-id as a comedian and frame her comments in that context (the ones that I understand to be the basis for the court case) would that be sufficient to exculpate her and earn redemption from SNP figures?

"It is," = I am,

@SparklingLime

I think her being cast in a panto was the trigger.

I think her being a vocal supporter of Scottish Independence was the trigger

So the SNP's stance on GC feminists is that we're just not funny enough? If we were to make our points but attach them to really nasty comments about transgender people we wouldn't get dragged to court because 'comedy'? Thanks for the clarification, Nicola.

Seriously, I hope there are things here that Marion Millar and others can use in their defence.

I'm generally in favour of free speech, but also believe you need to accept that this comes with consequences and accountability. Comedians as a group seem to be very keen to ensure that they are allowed to treat as comedy (however unfunny their brand of comedy might be) any topic they choose, whilst at the same time, policing the discourse of everyone else in public life. That's how Frankie Boyle gets away with it. He has the backing of his community, and appears that so does JG.

I am not sure how I feel about using this type of thing in comedy. I can't think of his name, but one comedian (not well known) tweeted a racist tweet after the Euros (England VS Italy, think it was the Euros) and based on that and a follow up tweet, theatres started cancelling his tour. While it is good to make a stand, you then have someone like Roy Chubby Brown and Jim Davidson who are still touring, they seem to make the distinction that if you are bringing in the crowds then its fine. If you don't racism is not aceptable.

The thing is if people dont pay to see them, then they wouldn't get booked, I am not sure if it is that simple but to me it seems to be. There are some very funny right winged comedians out there who are not racist and don't make a career out of insulting minority groups.

Everyone - quick - identify as a comedian.

Will this work for Marion Millar? The other women who've lost their jobs, been doxxed, threatened, arrested?

@ArabellaScott

Everyone - quick - identify as a comedian.

Will this work for Marion Millar? The other women who've lost their jobs, been doxxed, threatened, arrested?

“Aye it wiz just bantz... ma mate Nicky said it was awfly funny, and she was fair peein her pants... but nawwwwww, ye cannae get offended when ah call ye a * or yer man’s a , or get a way tae f ye * bast’id. Tweet a ribbon? Nah now that’s just going tae far... (see ye Jimmy, hoots mon, och ayw the nooo, rabbi burns, whisky haggis...)”

@ArabellaScott

Everyone - quick - identify as a comedian.

Will this work for Marion Millar? The other women who've lost their jobs, been doxxed, threatened, arrested?

Even tho' self-id as a comedian isn't a protected characteristic it should be treated as a de facto one?

I'm in no way thinking of all the men who already self-exonerate: Only joking with a fairly savage, You've no sense of humour with or without the addition of a gendered term of abuse.

At the risk of adopting a trope: I don't believe it.

(Not a fan).

it would be quite something if one of the first people prosecuted under the risible Hate Crime Bill turned out to be Sturgeon's court jester.

I think her being a vocal supporter of Scottish Independence was the trigger

What?

@ArabellaScott

it would be quite something if one of the first people prosecuted under the risible Hate Crime Bill turned out to be Sturgeon's court jester.

That's schadenfreude isn't it?

Ok I have to preface this with I haven't read the whole thread (don't stone me. I don't have a lot of time). OP I agree to some extent I hate cancel culture and I think that applies to it being used on anyone.

However, I think much of the talk has come from that fact that Marion Millar was charged with various tweets construed as hate and yet Godley gets a pass. Why is one woman charged while another's tweets are so public but ignored? Now personally I don't think either of them should be charged BUT it does rather shine a spotlight on which women are being targeted and why.