Transman wins lawsuit agains school board (Virginia) [Title edited by MNHQ at poster's request]

[SusannaM]

bit.ly/3sV3ib0

Not sure if this has already been posted (link is to The Insider). Transboy took a school board to court because he was excluded from boys bathrooms.

Gavin Grimm said he wants those passing anti-trans legislation to know: "Slowly and surely we're coming for all of them."

Grim indeed.

Well apparently autism is one of the symptoms...

Might explain it

In view of recent media coverage of the WiSpa sex offender shocker which lumped MN in with Breitbart, we can expect more disruptive American axe grinders over the coming weeks.

US posters: please do your research, as the UK already provides protections for transgender people in equality legislation and their healthcare needs are covered by our NHS, just like everyone else’s.

I don’t intend to waste my time arguing with the new wave ploppers and disruptors. They’re not bringing any new talking points or arguments that we haven’t already dissected thousands of times.

Yes, any one turning up with talk of “bathrooms” should probably be treated with suspicion with regards to their motives.

Thank you to those who picked up my point about the LGBTQ+ figures after I had gone to bed.

I think we had a thread on this story at the time. I almost certainly made the point then that I'll make now: that by excluding this young person from the boys' bathrooms, the school board were protecting the child. Allowing a teenager who is biologically female to use boys' spaces is putting that teenager at risk of harm. Probably the teenager in question was too naive to understand that, but the ACLU should have known better. I gather Gavin is now 22 so it won't make a difference for them but it could have harmful consequences for other female-bodied teenagers demanding a right to use boys' spaces.

It means a child who's gender is different from the one they were associated with at birth

Oh the science 😂🤣😂🤣

@Barheim

It's going backwards to say that a girl who likes things which are stereotypically associated with boys is somehow not a 'real' girl.

It sure is a good thing that trans people have repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and OVER, that this has nothing to do with being trans.

So stereotypes are nothing to do with being trans but everything to do with being gender non-conforming?

What does gender non-conformity mean to you?

Laundry list of things, innit? Not just rejecting the current status quo of what men or women should be like (in terms of looks, behaviour, beliefs), but going directly against it.

Pretty broad of a question.

So how did Jazz "I like pink and dresses" Jennings, know they were trans and not gender non conforming, [other than a feeling inside*]?

• A feeling that can't be quantified or explained I hasten to add.

@Naunet

It means a child who's gender is different from the one they were associated with at birth

Oh the science 😂🤣😂🤣

It’s almost as if the midwives flip a coin and say “it’s a boy/girl” rather than actually looking at them.

I don’t intend to waste my time arguing with the new wave ploppers and disruptors. They’re not bringing any new talking points or arguments that we haven’t already dissected thousands of times.

Alongside the ploppers and disruptors I expect a lot of people who simply want to know more about these issues will find their way here. The posters seeking to disrupt the discussion give us an opportunity to explain some of the facts.

By asking questions of the disruptors which they appear unable to answer, new lurkers can also see the weaknesses of the TRA position. Posters like Barheim are actually quite useful in this respect.

But perhaps Barheim will surprise us all and come back with coherent answers to questions like:

What does 'being trans' mean? (Not what it's not, we want to know what it is)

What is a 'gender identity'? (Not what it's not, we want to know what it is)

Why have adult trans people fought to avoid compulsory sterilisation for adults who want to be recognised as trans, but at the same time are advocating for treatment for so-called trans children which will leave them sterile?

Meanwhile

Reports of sex abuse between children double in two years www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58332341

Are schools ready for being sued by parents of girls (including those ID as boys) for sexual assaults?

@Barheim

What does gender non-conformity mean to you?

Laundry list of things, innit? Not just rejecting the current status quo of what men or women should be like (in terms of looks, behaviour, beliefs), but going directly against it.

Pretty broad of a question.

Ah. Blue hair. Got you

It doesn't seem like it's been a good use of anyone's time.

It’s just enraging that I was in court for six years, and it’s like I wasn't there at all.

The lawyers made 1.3 million out of it though.

By asking questions of the disruptors which they appear unable to answer, new lurkers can also see the weaknesses of the TRA position. Posters like Barheim are actually quite useful in this respect.

Totally agree. 👆
I lurked for quite a while on this board and the inability of trans allies to answer simple logical questions and their ability to totally disregard the needs of women when these needs got in the way of their agenda, finally opened my eyes to the dangers that women face in the world of " self identification of gender".

Someone should have told Gavin that, regardless of the topic at hand, lawsuits wielded out of a sense of personal grievance almost never deliver happiness.

@Barheim

Good for him! Shame he's getting none of the funds out of it, though.

Would be absolutely devastating to be a trans kid in school and have to go through the humiliation of being forced into the wrong gendered spaces.

Which is a great argument for why spaces should be separated by sex and not gender.

If we draw a clear line between the sex of the body (unchangeable) and the gender of the personality (unknowable) and make it clear single sex spaces are just about simple body sex and nothing to do with gender identity then no one’s gender identity is invalidated, no female is at risk of assault or humiliation by a male women (or a male claiming to be a woman) and no one feels they have the “wrong” body for their gender.

It seems to me the insistence on separating by gender and not sex is what’s causing all the problems here.

@WarriorN

Meanwhile

Reports of sex abuse between children double in two years www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58332341

Are schools ready for being sued by parents of girls (including those ID as boys) for sexual assaults?

The headline for that article hides the truth. Buried part way down it confirms Analysis of the new figures shows about nine in 10 of the alleged abusers were boys. And the abuse was carried out on girls in about eight in 10 cases.

Reminds me of Stella Creasy and the peer on peer quote used to dismiss the concerns raised by the mother of a girl who had experienced sexual assault in school

Which is why teachers need to recognise the difference between sex and gender.

Who is Barheim fighting here? They seem to have a view on who the people on this board are which definitely doesn't describe me in any way whatsoever. Very strange.

That poor young person was used by the ACLU.

@Sophoclesthefox

Someone should have told Gavin that, regardless of the topic at hand, lawsuits wielded out of a sense of personal grievance almost never deliver happiness.

Adults exploiting much younger people with disabilities as a trojan horse to weaken child safeguarding rules and for $$$. Nothing sinister in this at all.

I assume by sweat pants they mean track suit bottoms? The things we used to wear for games at school in the winter?! I think mine went to the charity shop about two decades ago! What a bizarre thing to say. I really love how they think these arguments help us feel more comfortable with male people in women's spaces!

A quick poll on how many contributors to this thread are anti - abortion would be interesting! I highly doubt many if any are?! In my social circles it's virtually non existant. Even my very Conservative mother is very pro abortion.

Franca123

Indeed Franca. It is often all too easy to see the prejudice in posts that take the attitude that regular posters on MN are uninformed and entrenched. As long as they too stick to the guidelines and the guidelines are evenly moderated it makes for a lively discussion where many excellent points are brought out. Generally showing exactly which posters are prejudiced, uninformed and entrenched in ideology.

I find it incredibly sad that people have to buy into there being a "status quo" of what men and women should be like in order to define themselves by their relationship to it.
And when they insult people who have undergone transition but didn't do it in the way they dictate. Just be kind, eh?

It's also transphobic to say that people are assigned a gender at birth.
Their sex is recorded. To conflate sex and gender is to erase trans people's existence.

I won't report posts doing this for transphobia so they can be read by lurkers, but it is depressing.