Transman wins lawsuit agains school board (Virginia) [Title edited by MNHQ at poster's request]

[SusannaM]

bit.ly/3sV3ib0

Not sure if this has already been posted (link is to The Insider). Transboy took a school board to court because he was excluded from boys bathrooms.

Gavin Grimm said he wants those passing anti-trans legislation to know: "Slowly and surely we're coming for all of them."

Grim indeed.

They're definitely gendered spaces.

What does that mean?

You don't fit a sex-based stereotype? Big deal. Very many people don't.
Do you imagine that it means you are the opposite sex?

@Barheim

I'm not sure that is the gotcha you want it to be.

Depends on if you're going down the route of insisting autistic people are being coerced into being attracted to their own gender.

What has attraction got to do with this? This story is about a transgender person.

What has attraction got to do with this? This story is about a transgender person.

My statement was about autistic people and being part of the LGBTQ+ community on a whole, which you stated was hurting my claim.

If you're under the imagination that they're open to people of the same sex, you've... really not listened to either butch women or trans people.

Butch women look like women. A schoolchild who identifies as transgender probably also looks like their sex they are (although I know in the US the laws are not protecting those children from physical harm as much as they do in the UK, so that may not always be the case there). And the school should know what sex their pupils are and make appropriate arrangements for them.

Keira Bell doesn't even feel welcome in them

What Keira Bell actually said is that she thinks some women might think she is male because of the permanent changes testosterone has made to her appearance and they might be distressed if they saw her in the women's toilets So out of consideration for those other women she uses male toilets.

What was done to her by the Tavistock is appalling. There is no excuse for harming vulnerable young people like that.

@Barheim

What has attraction got to do with this? This story is about a transgender person.

My statement was about autistic people and being part of the LGBTQ+ community on a whole, which you stated was hurting my claim.

If you look a bit closer you'll see that was someone else, not me.

But what do the TQ+ letters have to do with attraction? That is covered by LGB which is not what we're discussing here.

Butch women look like women.

Many of them have been anywhere from insulted to assaulted for entering women's bathrooms.

A schoolchild who identifies as transgender

A trans child. And you don't know anything about what they look like.

What was done to her by the Tavistock is appalling.
The Tavistock followed the medical path she chose to have and I'd definitely look into the dangers of insisting young women are incapable of making their own medical decisions, as Bell's case is currently being used by anti-vaxx and anti-abortion activists.

But what do the TQ+ letters have to do with attraction? That is covered by LGB which is not what we're discussing here.

Quite an irrelevant deflection to what I'm saying.

The lawyers will reap the benefits too when kids & parents begin to sue doctors over mutilated bodies and minds. The backlash isn't far off and as Helen Joyce points out in her great book, Trans - When Ideology Meets Reality, "will have far-reaching consequences. The blame may not land with the activists, where it belongs.”

Where it will assuredly (and deservedly) land is on Democratic politicians, whose pandering to the obnoxious, insufferable transactivist lobby will lose them the House, Senate, and the White House to the American fascist movement and usher in a brand of illiberalism that won't have much sympathy for trans people.
irislee.substack.com/p/trans-when-ideology-meets-reality

Just like the rest of us then.

Ah yes Mumsnet gender nonconformity.

Sweatpants and a ponytail.

@Barheim

Just like the rest of us then.

Ah yes Mumsnet gender nonconformity.

Sweatpants and a ponytail.

What does gender non-conformity mean to you?

Grimm, 22, sued the Gloucester County School Board in 2015 after it prohibited him from using the bathroom that matched his gender identity, arguing the policy violated Title IX, which bans sex discrimination in schools

Don’t get it
“Sex discrimination” isn’t the same as gender discrimination
Whilst Gavin might choose gender Gavin’s sex is still female as that physically can’t change.

What does gender non-conformity mean to you?

Laundry list of things, innit? Not just rejecting the current status quo of what men or women should be like (in terms of looks, behaviour, beliefs), but going directly against it.

Pretty broad of a question.

Many of them have been anywhere from insulted to assaulted for entering women's bathrooms.

I expect you have lots of links to back up this statement.

I assume this is in the US. We don't have public bathrooms in the UK. But I also assume this has got much worse in recent years since some male people have insisted that their self-declared 'gender identity' (feeling womanly in their heads) means that they should access women's spaces.

A trans child.

What is a trans child?

The Tavistock followed the medical path she chose to have and I'd definitely look into the dangers of insisting young women are incapable of making their own medical decisions, as Bell's case is currently being used by anti-vaxx and anti-abortion activists.

The Tavistock affirmed her self-declared trans identity rather than investigating why she believed she should be a boy. This was negligence on their part. At 16 she was still a child.

A girl who has gone through puberty and is pregnant is capable of understanding what is happening to her and making decisions about what she wants to do.

A child is not capable of making a decision to be sterilised and have treatment which will leave them with impaired sexual function.

Go ahead and fight for the right to sterilise children. I'll still be fighting against it.

Bell's case is currently being used by anti-vaxx and anti-abortion activists

Is it? How?

@Barheim

What does gender non-conformity mean to you?

Laundry list of things, innit? Not just rejecting the current status quo of what men or women should be like (in terms of looks, behaviour, beliefs), but going directly against it.

Pretty broad of a question.

So you can’t define what it is, only what it isn’t.

Okay.

Back to the thread, I agree it’s not sex discrimination, and to allow a vulnerable teenage female to be in private spaces with boys would have been a safeguarding nightmare. How can schools safeguarding females with this ruling? They would have to sign a legal proviso of some sort.

Doesn’t protect the boys though.

And doesn’t help the girls in a reversed scenario.

@Bythemillpond

Grimm, 22, sued the Gloucester County School Board in 2015 after it prohibited him from using the bathroom that matched his gender identity, arguing the policy violated Title IX, which bans sex discrimination in schools

Don’t get it
“Sex discrimination” isn’t the same as gender discrimination
Whilst Gavin might choose gender Gavin’s sex is still female as that physically can’t change.

I'm not American, so I might have got this wrong, but I think that 'sex' in the US legislation covers sex and 'gender identity', so that a male person who claims a womanly 'gender identity' can claim discrimination if they are not allowed to use a female only space.

This is what TRAs are trying to do in the UK by using the wrong terms in the Equality Act - gender instead of sex and 'gender identity' instead of 'gender reassignment'. The ultimate aim seems to be to have one protected characteristic of 'gender' or 'gender identity' which would remove the protections offered by the protected characteristic of sex completely.

I think the Obama administration changed it to mean gender, and the Trump administration changed it back, through directions, not actual proper amendments.

The Civil Rights Act lists sex - not gender identity. Biden has said sex should be considered to mean gender but it's not law.

A child who's transgender.

Does this mean a child who was born in the wrong body, or something else? If so, what exactly?

Does this mean a child who was born in the wrong body, or something else? If so, what exactly?

It means a child who's gender is different from the one they were associated with at birth.

The 'wrong body' narrative was made because of the continuous annoyance of explaining the same thing fifty million times to people who don't even want to pretend to listen.

If you assume that butch women are being attacked because people are trying to attack trans women using the proper bathroom, ergo your own group, you're correct.

So you agree that the problems that butch women are now facing are due to male people. Thanks for confirming that.

The proper 'bathroom' (if we're using American terminology) for male people is the one for males. HTH.