Do we have it anywhere on record that Stonewall does/does not support people to express their sexuality as exclusively homosexual?

[JustcameoutGC]

The expectation that lesbians accept partners with penises was one of the things that really made me start questioning gender identity politics more closely.

Exclusively homosexual lesbian spaces have disappeared as viewed to be transphobic. Just look on any lesbian dating apps and many of the users are male and be-penised. Some may be fine with this, but all of my lesbian friends are not, and they feel very disenfranchised, but equally they feel unable to speak out. Just look at what happened in Manchester.

I just can't wrap my head around how the prevoiusly stalwart and highly effective champion of gay rights has now essentially outlawed exclusive homosexuality.

Have they made any statements that make this stance clear? Have they actively said they do not support exclusively homosexual spaces?

I originally said the vast majority of trans women wouldn't think like that, and a minority do. I stand by that, but how big or small the minority is, how can that be measured?

You may have originally said that it was a minority but then claimed it was a 'scare story whipped up by GC'. So, which is it?

And as many, many posters have asked you, even if it is a small minority, why on earth are the majority of transpeople, their allies and organisations such as Stonewall not condemning this behaviour publically?

There has been nothing. Instead claims (such as you made) that it doesn't happen. That it's GC's making it all up.

It is happening. We've shown you evidence.

Where is the outcry? Why are the 6 people you follow not saying 'hang on, this is outrageous! We don't believe that - it's a minority!'.

@BilindaB

'If it were only a small percentage of cis dykes who were not interested in trans women at all, I would write it off as simply a matter of personal preference. But this not a minor problem—it is systemic; it is a predominant sentiment in queer women’s communities. And when the overwhelming majority of cis dykes date and fuck cis women, but are not open to, or are even turned off by, the idea of dating or fucking trans women, how is that not transphobic? And to those cis women who claim a dyke identity, yet consider trans men, but not trans women, to be a part of your dating pool, let me ask you this: How are you not a hypocrite?”

Yeah that's a load of shit.

Thank you for condemning this.

I'm taking on board that more could be done - I'm going to watch that Arielle Scarcella video, I see it has far more likes than dislikes and a quick scan has comments like 'As a trans woman who happens to be bisexual I would never guilt a woman or a man to date me. Why would you want to be with some one who is not attracted to who/what you are.' and 'Speaking as a trans woman I just want to say, that it's ok not to want to date a trans person.' - I'll go through the comments and see if there are any that think like Serano.

Later

Arielle Scarcella video - Dear Trans Women, Stop Pushing “Girl Dick” On Lesbians

I mean, Stonewall surely have condemned this? It's meant to be an organisation which represents and supports lesbians - it's in the name. Other LGBT organisations must be going out their way to support lesbians against bullying and coersion regarding their choice of sexual partners? Research being done, support helplines and groups being set up?

If they are not (and I certainly haven't seen any - happy to be corrected), then why not.

And if they will not, then perhaps that gives an answer as to why the LGB Alliance was set up.

Exactly Waitwhat.

And the reason for not supporting same sex could be along the same line as the reason their members to spread the falsehoods that LGB Alliance are a hate group. To the point when no one questions why a group simply cannot ignore a single gay man in an LGB Alliance shirt.

I'll go through the comments and see if there are any that think like Serano.

The problem is that Scarcella is firmly persona non grata in mainstream "LGBTetc" places because she makes videos saying stuff like that.

The issue isn't so much how many people agree/disagree with her in private (or anonymously in YouTube comments) - it's what happens to people like her who speak up publicly.

Lesbian event at Sydney Mardi Gras withdrawn after online activists target YouTuber Arielle Scarcella

And maybe only a "minority" of trans people/allies react like that, but it's enough.

And that refers to my agreement that the MALE LGB activist, there to cause trouble, was rightly removed by the gay, lesbian and trans Pride event, as he was promoting a trans hate group. Anyone turning up to Pride wearing t-shirts that are anti Gay, Lesbian or Trans should be made to leave.

Could you clarify please, BilindaB if in your view

LGB-without-the-T = transphobia/anti-trans
does
T-without-the-LGB = homophobia/anti-LGB?

And if not, could you tell me the difference?

The LGBA was founded to defend the sex-based protections contained for LGB people in the Equality Act, to highlight why and how the doctrine of gender identity is harmful to LGB people and what its political implications are for the rights of LGB people.

Members of the trans community are members of the LGBA, it does not exclude them from membership. It limits its campaign aims to LGB rights though and like many women's rights campaigners considers the doctrine of gender identity and its implementation in laws, policies and regulations to be the most immediately harmful issue to the interests of their group. That's therefore the focus of their campaign.

Why do you believe they are a hate group? Why do you believe seeking to uphold the sex-based protections for LGB people is anti-trans?

And would you accept any LGB-without-the-T group at all or do you believe anyone focusing on LGB-without-the-T is always motivated by hate against the trans community?

www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/pdvecl/why_am_i_treated_worse_by_cis_gay_men_than_cis/hasxt6s/

From another perspective.

he was promoting a trans hate group

I think more 'group for same-sex-attracted people bored of having to consider the needs of trans people even when those trans people are not same-sex attracted'.

That sounds to me like pragmatism, not hate.

@BilindaB

'If it were only a small percentage of cis dykes who were not interested in trans women at all, I would write it off as simply a matter of personal preference. But this not a minor problem—it is systemic; it is a predominant sentiment in queer women’s communities. And when the overwhelming majority of cis dykes date and fuck cis women, but are not open to, or are even turned off by, the idea of dating or fucking trans women, how is that not transphobic? And to those cis women who claim a dyke identity, yet consider trans men, but not trans women, to be a part of your dating pool, let me ask you this: How are you not a hypocrite?”

Yeah that's a load of shit.

If only more TW and their supporters would come out and say that on Twitter, etc., rather than hating on cis lesbians and/or complaining about their penis-aversion.

Good grief. Surely it’s obvious that same-sex-attracted people aren’t going to date the opposite sex?

Or don’t words have meanings, and people have bodies?

Not interested in dating =/= ‘hate’.

If only more TW and their supporters would come out and say that on Twitter, etc., rather than hating on cis lesbians and/or complaining about their penis-aversion.

If only STONEWALL would come out and say it, rather than “sorry, we can’t help you with that.”

Does anyone remember Stonewall UK making a stand for lesbians when the Daily Beast published Julia Serano's article?