Dh peaked last night…

[WhatsAppening]

And by ‘peaked’ I mean my usually mild mannered don’t rock the boat just be kind oh mums going on about that trans stuff again ABSOLUTELY LOST HIS SHIT at 17yo DD telling him ‘super straight’ is transphobic as fuck.

I’ve never heard him swear as much as he did at DD telling him ladycock is a thing. He’s not remotely homophobic but being told he should theoretically accept ladycock into his sex life was a tipping point.

He gets it now.

@zoemum2006

Why do people find it so hard to talk to teenagers?

Why do people think shouting and swearing at them is ok?

Can't you just talk to them - even if they are pushing at the boundaries of what we consider normal? Because it was ever thus.

Can't you just say "this is a very new way of thinking about things and I don't really agree with it but I am prepared to listen and talk so we can understand each other".

I remember my parents being horrible to me when I said minstrel shows were racist - they called me ignorant. That still hurts 30 years later!

Couldn't they have just said to me "it used to be something people thought was entertaining but times have changes and we now understand it to be racist. It's important not to judge people in the past by our current beliefs because people in the future may judge our attitudes badly too".

These things are all learning opportunities for your children. Don't just shut them down and punish them.

Well, except that the minstrel shows were racist so that was old thinking that should have been challenged.

Believing people have the right to have sex with who they choose (eg straight men and lesbains rejecting cock) without receiving abuse for it isn't.

The wrong are cocksure and those with knowledge are afraid to speak up.

The original of that quote is one of my favourites:

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/04/self-doubt/

It continually comes to my mind as I read the latest nonsense over gender identity.

Can't you just talk to them - even if they are pushing at the boundaries of what we consider normal? Because it was ever thus

It’s not that simple.

What we have been fed is gay rights (totally agree they should be treated as equals etc)

However there’s an underlying extremism that is taking things out of context and is almost cult like amongst the younger teens.

It’s almost expected that unless you come out as anything other than straight you are somehow a bigot.

Take DD year group 6 trans teens - and this is supposedly rare.

Adult need to wake up and see what’s happening in schools because this could be extremely damaging to young people in the future.

@Karwomannghia

Having a sweary argument with a teenager is not ok, I bet she was terrified.

You’ve not met any woke 17 year olds, have you?

Only on Mumsnet are you not allowed to raise your voice and swear at a belligerent teenager.

Oh, you're allowed. It won't do much good, but you're allowed.
It's just as useful as raising your voice and swear at a belligerent child or adult. It just makes them stick to their ground even more, and shuts dialogue. But you handle your relationship with your teens as you want. Then post threads about how difficult they are.

This quite funny really. I was a teenager in the '70s and this kind of self indulgent shite wouldn't have been tolerated for a second. You'd be told to grow the fuck up, get out and find a job, and consider yourself lucky if the 'shouting at' wasn't accompanied by a smack around the head.

@Wroxie

The fact that you so sneerily refer to your own child as a "blue haired queer" is so fucking sad. Even at our absolute worst, when my very conservative religious mother was angry and in shock at basically everything I did and everything I was, she would never have been so unkind about me. The villains in this story aren't who you seem to think they are (and I hope that this whole thing is as much of a weird made-up fantasy because you have described a very broken family).

You do realise that is likely how the teen refers to themselves?

@Wroxie

The fact that you so sneerily refer to your own child as a "blue haired queer" is so fucking sad. Even at our absolute worst, when my very conservative religious mother was angry and in shock at basically everything I did and everything I was, she would never have been so unkind about me. The villains in this story aren't who you seem to think they are (and I hope that this whole thing is as much of a weird made-up fantasy because you have described a very broken family).

I mean, she literally has blue hair and self identifies as queer so I’m really not sure if your point there. 🤷🏻‍♀️

*sure of

I've watched the girl who 5 years ago come out as a lesbian, be followed by her younger sister, they they were both BI, then they were PAN.
Suddenly the eldest is a mother in a relationship with a man due to marry and suddenly feels like she was brainwashed by society.
Both girls have never even kissed another girl, and now claim they are Heterosexual and always have been but that their school friends were all claiming to be Lesbians and they felt they had to do this as well.

WTF is a 'ladycock''?

I feel really old now.

Peaking @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy in 5...4...3...2...1...

. @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy If someone born a male suddenly realises /decides that they are female, they are a woman. And their dick is a ladydick / ladycock. And obviously lesbians (and now increasingly straight men) need to change their sexual preferences to include ladycock.

It appears that many straight men are…more vocal..in their protests. Like the OPs partner…

I even saw this quite a bit on Reddit recently. One comment was along the lines “I have hated TERFS for quite a while but if this is the st they have to put up with, I kind of understand them

Oh thats funny 😀

The fact that you so sneerily refer to your own child as a "blue haired queer" is so fucking sad

What part of it isnt true?

DH has a number of teenage/early 20s nieces/nephews/cousins who all appear to be non binary, TWAW etc. We don't see them much as they live in another country and we aren't that close anyway, but what we are interested to see over the next few years is how much of this is a genuine shift in their thinking vs just being young and dumb. eg the oldest one genuinely is the most laid back human I've ever met. He's only dated women but I think has experimented with men, might well be bi and claims that if he was dating a woman and it turned out she was trans, and had a penis, he'd be fine with it. I actually genuinely believe him.

Another, who is younger (17 or so), is a trans girl, dating a natal girl, and apparently they're both lesbian. From our perspective they're just a heterosexual teenage couple. So how much of all this is them feeling more comfortable with different forms of self expression BUT not feeling comfortable doing it without a label.

Having said all that, I'm dreading the post covid visit to see these people!

@Karwomannghia

Having a sweary argument with a teenager is not ok, I bet she was terrified.

Too bad if she was terrified. Everyone needs to learn about boundaries.

@borntobequiet

I think that if I were the father of a young adult daughter and she was telling me nonsense like this, I would genuinely be fearful that such extreme nativity with regard to sex, sexual practices and men’s sexual behaviour could result in her being put in some very uncomfortable/dangerous situations. (Plus I’d be astonished by her credulity.)

This. How is it that an ideology that is saying it's not ok to say 'no' to sex is progressive?

And of course it's mostly women and girls who will be harmed by this.

It's a safeguarding issue. -=p

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

WTF is a 'ladycock''?

I feel really old now.

Yeah, I had to Google it. It’s a man.

OP, you have my sympathies. The situation sounds challenging and I hope your daughter finds her path soon.

In our house

It’s called a unexpected item in the bagging area