GC women thrown out of Edinburgh pub

[cariadlet]

Sorry if there's already a thread on this. I've been following it on twitter all day but didn't spot anything on Mumsnet.

The Edinburgh News has got a report about it.
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/inquiry-launched-into-row-over-transphobia-in-edinburgh-pub-3355594

The reporter quotes a lot of the TRA's tweets which they would probably love but I think the reporter's just given them enough rope to hang themselves.

I'm sure the average reader who hasn't followed the trans debate won't be impressed by someone who calls themselves an "AGP porn addict male" in their twitter bio.

That’s an interesting update, weebisom.

I would very much like to know where the figure of three thousand “active gender criticals” comes from. I’ve personally been to an event that had around 700 people (though of course, I can’t know what any of them apart from the handful that I know personally believe), and that’s just in one city.

Is it from counting Twitter accounts? 🤣 if it is, I do suggest stepping away from the internet and talking to people in real life.

I’m astonished at the amount of people who want to defend someone in the hospitality industry who thinks it’s a good idea to call the police on people because of their political beliefs, and calls women cunts. Really, you’re defending that?

Ah, I see you're off out, Blinda. Shame. To sum up your position: Most people believe TWAW, only a tiny handful of women care about keeping males out of single sex spaces, the women here are out of touch, and our concerns are pointless and ineffectual.

I mean, if I thought that a tiny irrelevant clique of people held pointless views that were contrary to mine, I'd definitely spend time seeking them out on the internet to tell them they were wrong. For sure.

Isn't there a TW who has just dropped out of uni to open a bar? Maybe that's meb's new job? 🤷‍♀️

That new bar is meant for lesbians exclusively but hey ho maybe meb is a lesbian too as well as a “ children’s entertainer “ as stated on their Twitter biography

Do scroll down to read the whole thing...

jobs.greeneking.co.uk/job/edinburgh/assistant-manager/1659/12805567824

@WeeBisom Thanks for taking the trouble to email them (I was a bit lazy and just tweeted) and for sharing the reply.

It starts off as normal corporate guff but then does sound like they're going to carry out a proper investigation.

I hope that includes the barman's twitter feed.

Let me make something crystal clear to you. I will fight to my dying breath to stop that happening.

This is another reason we fight so hard and won't quit;
Those of you who have never fought for any right needed by women have no idea how hard it is. If a right is taken away, it will be nearly impossible to win it back.

Rolling back to single sex will be more difficult, because by then it really would mean removing rights from others. Whereas now, we are just fighting to keep what we already have.

Not to mention you are trying to take rights away from me now and I am still using them.

I walked past this pub at lunchtime and it was half-empty. Normally at this time of year, it would be rammed full of festival-goers, but like everywhere, it is struggling now.

I don't think they're in a position to alienate customers tbh. I know I'll never drink in there again.

I find that asking people if they think lesbians are transphobic if they don’t fancy men, and ditto gay men and women makes people amazed that this is part of it.

Most people also think that women’s jails should not have men in them, nor rape crisis centres.

@WeeBisom

Don’t know if others have posted this, but I just got a reply from Greene King. I emailed them asking if it was company policy to eject gender critical women for wearing t shirts or simply having gender critical beliefs. They said:

“We always strive for our pubs to be friendly and welcoming places for all and we have a very clear policy that we do not tolerate any form of discrimination or abuse from our customers or team members. As soon as we were made aware of this incident, we started a full investigation which includes interviewing all team members who were on duty that evening and reviewing CCTV footage. We are also aware of the involvement of the police and we will, of course, fully co-operate with them.

Please rest assured that once our investigation is concluded we will not hesitate to take any appropriate action that may be necessary.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us and please be assured that we are treating this matter with the urgency and seriousness it warrants.“

Looks like they are taking this seriously, at least.

No reply to my inquiry but the receptionist who answered sounded a wee bit fed up, must have had a lot of calls on this...👍

People think of transwomen as people who “have a sex change”.

They don’t know that all you have to do now is say you’re a man/woman and that’s it.

If there are only three thousand of us and some of you wimms aren’t on Twitter, those of us who are must have at least six accounts each, going by la scapigliata’s account, which is set up by a doctor, specifically to argue for women’s rights!

@BilindaB

''Do you think they're just going to give in quietly?''

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people. 10 million people - yet how many active 'gender criticals' are there? Probably less than three thousand, according to research. (If you want to see the research, go find it - I'm off out, bye x)

Most people don’t define themselves as gender critical for the same reason most people don’t define themselves as believers in gravity…because it never occurred to them anyone would seriously claim otherwise. They don’t realise there are people trying seriously to claim that trans identifying males, self identifying as women with no expectation of medical reassignment, must have the exact same rights, opportunities and accesses that female people do in all circumstances and that their experience of womanhood inside their own heads has more authority about what it is to be a woman and the challenges women face than the experience of a life lived in a female body.

Just because they don't believe trans women are women (or trans men are men) doesn't mean they will oppose measures that make things easier for trans people.

Sure, but I don’t think that means they will accept the only measures on the table involve negating female autonomy and privacy.

@AnyOldPrion

If there are only three thousand of us and some of you wimms aren’t on Twitter, those of us who are must have at least six accounts each, going by la scapigliata’s account, which is set up by a doctor, specifically to argue for women’s rights!

Yup, and also

Sex Matters: 20.1k followers
Fair Play For Women: 44.1k followers

That's a lot of sock accounts to keep track of

Sure, but I don’t think that means they will accept the only measures on the table involve negating female autonomy and privacy.

To be clear that doesn’t mean do nothing to support trans or any GNC people, it means we need to find solutions that work for female people (of all genders) as well as trans people (of both sexes).

@AnyOldPrion

If there are only three thousand of us and some of you wimms aren’t on Twitter, those of us who are must have at least six accounts each, going by la scapigliata’s account, which is set up by a doctor, specifically to argue for women’s rights!

Haven't you heard? They're all far right Christian American sock puppets or something. Astroterf, was it? Or bot farms. Something like that. Definitely.

There are people on twitter who do, like, analyses of terfy activity & they've PROVED terfs don't exist. And that's, like, REAL SCIENCE so you can tell everyone & then it'll be true & everyone will know & - ooh! ow! Stop hitting me, Mum, alright, alright, you exist. And yes, alright, I'll tidy my room. Can't get five minutes' peace in this house.

By contrast, very few of the noisy anime avatars on Twitter have as many as a hundred followers. It's a waste of time engaging with them, really.

One positive of this fiasco is that it gives people the choice to opt to be on the side of mebisdead, and their revolting twitter history and behaviour, without having thought about how this looks to people in general. Or the rights and wrongs of what they're getting behind.

One of these days this kind of thing is really going to burst into the public domain and the general public will be asking "you support what?!"

I think we're reaching that point now, I see people online saying things like 'is this what Scottish Nationalism means?'' and others complaining the party has been co-opted. And a lot of people saying they no longer have anyone to vote for.

android.

I think we are reaching the 'I beg your actual pardon, what?' point now, too. Or maybe even getting to the point where people have gone and 're-educated' themselves, read up on the issues, and are happy enough to say: 'No, thank you'.

BilindaB, a few quotes from that Yougov poll you've quoted:

'Britons oppose simplifying the legal process of changing genders'

'People tend to be fine with transgender people using facilities for their new gender, but not if they have not undergone gender reassignment surgery' Which is pretty much all transgender people

'When it comes to sports, Britons are much less supportive of access for trans people. People tend to think that transgender people should not be able to participate in sporting events for their new gender'

I think any poll asking the bald question as to whether you would support transgender people accessing changing rooms etc of their new gender, the response would probably be yes, but if the poll pointed out that most transgender people have not had surgery then the responses are very different.

I'm wondering how people are going to row back now, when they change their minds. I'm actually curious to see it happen.

For many they're going to have to find someone to blame. They were led astray in some way. For some of those somehow it'll be the fault of those women who were being so noisy and intolerant. The women might have had a point for some of it but they drowned it out in their shrieking.

@PronounssheRa

So clearly while many of the public will say a trans women is a woman, when asked to follow through the practical implicationsof that statement they do in fact see material differences between trans women and female people

Yes, remember 'not for relationship purposes' Robin who had been lecturing women that TWAW. Alas, Robin doesn't really think this either

Aidan Comeford firmly believes people who have views like Robin there should be and deserve to be slapped, he especially applies that to lesbians who refuse TW.

@WouldBeGood

People think of transwomen as people who “have a sex change”.

They don’t know that all you have to do now is say you’re a man/woman and that’s it.

Case in point, the bar worker that this thread relates to. Has "bewbs", but also has a penis. Which they send photos of to people, which doesn't really chime with dysphoria/feeling like you were born in rhe wrong body, does it?

People have no idea.